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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:09 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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TheJackal wrote:
Register shows extensive property and outside interests of TDs

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.3392449

Quote:
More than a quarter of TDs are landlords

There are approx 76k private landlords in Ireland, excluding holiday homes.

Working population is what, 2.2m?

So that's 3%.

So another statement might be something like "TDs more than 8x more likely to be landlords than ordinary working people".

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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
There are approx 76k private landlords in Ireland, excluding holiday homes.

Working population is what, 2.2m?

So that's 3%.

So another statement might be something like "TDs more than 8x more likely to be landlords than ordinary working people".


That's spurious.

Landlords are more likely to be wealthier and older than average. This is true the world over.

The median age in Ireland is 37. There are maybe ten TDs younger than 37.

The median TD (informed guess) is somewhat wealthier than the median voter too, although not by a huge amount, compared to the US for example.

No one has ever proved that TDs are more likely to be landlords than their demographic would suggest.



Several TDs are likely tenants as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:42 am 
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There is nothing spurious about what I posted. The stats may be off, produce better ones if you have them.

It is unarguable that TDs are more likely to be landlords than the people they represent, even if you exclude the non working population.

It is debatable whether that motivates their decisions.

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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:59 am 
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Eschatologist wrote:
It is unarguable that TDs are more likely to be landlords than the people they represent, even if you exclude the non working population.

It is debatable whether that motivates their decisions.

Well, let's have a look at how the landlords voted in the Right to Housing Bill 2017.

hmmm... I think I see a pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:50 am 
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Sein Fein the party that allows TDs a free vote in the Dail :)


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:53 am 
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Luan wrote:
Sein Fein the party that allows TDs a free vote in the Dail :)

Whatever about the many dismerits of Sinn Fein, shilling for landlords is not one of them. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:57 am 
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Worth noting that Mick Wallace was the only landlord to vote against his own self interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:03 am 
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i find this obsession with TDs being landlords bizarre, being a small time landlord in ireland for the vast majority is the furthest thing from a lucrative side business.

if you were lucky enough to buy some apartments at rock bottom prices in 2011/2 maybe its worthwhile but for most people it isnt, its more of a pain in the neck than anything else.

a lot of friends of mind are accidental landlords and all they want to do is get rid of the property and leave it behind them


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:26 am 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Luan wrote:
Sein Fein the party that allows TDs a free vote in the Dail :)

Whatever about the many dismerits of Sinn Fein, shilling for landlords is not one of them. :D

Without doubt - however the Sein Fein support group was suggesting FF/FG TDs were voting to promote their own personal interests rather than according to the party whip.

Least we forget Sein Fein rules with a iron fist and has even banned its membership (under threat of sanction) from unauthorized discussions with journalists or the media. Freedom of choice is not something the party is particularly well know for :)


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:18 pm 
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So you're saying that FF/FG TDs were prevented from supporting the Right to Housing Bill 2017 because of the party whip AND that SF TDs wanted to vote against it but the party whip prevented them? hmmm... interesting. Are you suggesting that all parties have 'a iron fist' or just one?

If the parties didn't have the whip system would the result have been different? I doubt it. I think the problem is that FF/FG have a policy to prioritise property rights over everything. And enough of your trolling. Let's just try to just add facts to the discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:34 pm 
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:roll:

Yes let’s stick to the facts - The whip system prevents TDs from voting with their conscience. Speculation of what way they would have voted without the whip is not a fact.

There is just one party “Sein Fein” that has banned its membership from unauthorized discusssions with the media and journalists. Any thoughts on why the leadership has taken this type of action? Maybe they want people to engage in open dialogue?


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Luan wrote:
Yes let’s stick to the facts - The whip system prevents TDs from voting with their conscience. Speculation of what way they would have voted without the whip is not a fact.
Well it's certainly an interesting point. I hadn't considered the possibility that FF/FG Tds wanted to vote against their parties to support the Right to Housing Bill 2017.

From your own experience as a landlord would you say many of the FF/FG landlords would have supported the Bill? Almost every landlord turned up to vote against the Bill.... :)

And I'm not sure what your obsession with SF is? They're just the second largest party in the opposition but it's like every single criticism of FG triggers you to attack them. I actually read about that cognitive behaviour issue recently but we'll save it for another thread. It's interesting stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
Worth noting that Mick Wallace was the only landlord to vote against his own self interest.


Is wallace still a landlord, surely his bankruptcy ended that?


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 Post subject: Re: Govt's New Affordable Mortgage Scheme
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:19 pm 
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cyrusir wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
Worth noting that Mick Wallace was the only landlord to vote against his own self interest.


Is wallace still a landlord, surely his bankruptcy ended that?


:D

Maybe he still owns property in Italy. Oh, wait he sold that to his brother. All above board I'm sure.

The thieving knacker still has the cash to go to the World Cup while owing a fortune to Revenue and his Creditors

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... y-tax.html

Quote:

Irish deputy gave €500k winery to brother at same time he refused to pay €1.4m tax
By Michael O'farrell
02:17 GMT 17 Jun 2012,

Tax-dodging Mick Wallace is facing fresh questions over the way he transferred a €500,000 Italian villa and vineyard to his brother

Mr Wallace has acknowledged that he lied and deliberately committed tax fraud during 2008 and 2009


Mick Wallace faces fresh questions over the way he transferred a villa and vineyard to his brother
Tax-dodging Deputy Mick Wallace is facing fresh questions over the way he transferred a €500,000 Italian villa and vineyard to his brother – at the same time he was refusing to pay €1.4m to the Revenue.

The 2009 transfer was done in such a way that Mr Wallace is still able to use the property as his own, visiting whenever he wants, despite claiming to be effectively broke.

Mr Wallace says he gave the vineyard to his brother to settle a €550,000 debt for building supplies.

But the fact that he did so at the very time he admits defrauding the Revenue will raise questions as to whether the transfer was an attempt to ensure the taxman (or other creditors) could not get their hands on it and sell it to pay off some of his company’s huge debts.

This weekend, Mr Wallace’s brother, Joseph, who is now the owner of the Italian winery, declined to answer questions about the deal.

Among the questions facing the Wallace family are:

Why would Mick Wallace use a personal asset to pay a business debt? (Mr Wallace has insisted that he and his building firm are separate entities)

If money was owed to Joseph Wallace’s company, why did he take personal ownership of the vineyard? Should the vineyard have been handed over to the firm rather than Joseph?

What documents are there showing how the €550,000 debt was accrued?

Has the Revenue ever been in contact over the deal?

Deputy Wallace could not be contacted this weekend to answer questions about the deal


Last edited by slasher on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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