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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:44 pm 
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FTBer wrote:
distribution of bus stops can be farcical. On one strip of Rathmines there are 3 stops within less than 200m!



It's actually 400 - 600 metres depending on which 3 of the 5 outbound stops between Portobello and the Garda Station you use.

And as us Transportation Experts know :P the number of stops is actually to keep schoolchildren apart. There's a stop for St Mary's, a stop for St Louis junior school, a stop for the shoppers at the Swan and schoolchildren walking from Ranelagh, and a stop for St Louis Senior school.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Posts: 327
Had a quick look over the one that affects me- Clongriffin/Malahide Road QBC- can't see too many home owners cribbing about their garden loss if the price is right but the major work will be the removal of the Artane roundabout and the big Roundabout at Darndale which are to be made into signalised junctions- these will be major civil engineering undertakings that will no doubt take months and if done wrong could be a real blight on the receiving suburban environment.

Even after all that is done the success of the project is acknowledged as being dependent on DCC completing the Clontarf Road/Fairview upgrades simultaneously or else they will be just funneling buses into gridlock...


Last edited by tommyt on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 12, 2014
Posts: 631
Location: Dublin
GameBlame wrote:
FTBer wrote:
distribution of bus stops can be farcical. On one strip of Rathmines there are 3 stops within less than 200m!



It's actually 400 - 600 metres depending on which 3 of the 5 outbound stops between Portobello and the Garda Station you use.

And as us Transportation Experts know :P the number of stops is actually to keep schoolchildren apart. There's a stop for St Mary's, a stop for St Louis junior school, a stop for the shoppers at the Swan and schoolchildren walking from Ranelagh, and a stop for St Louis Senior school.

Try the inbound side of the road! It’s ridiculously inefficient!


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Agreed re bus stop spacing, I could lose the two nearest my house and the third is very near. They also need to get rid of cash, it should be flat fare, card readers on both sides of the door. No one should have to interact with the driver.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am 
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blanchguy wrote:
They also need to get rid of cash, it should be flat fare, card readers on both sides of the door. No one should have to interact with the driver.

The NTA want to do this, they are proposing a flat fare with unlimited transfers, within 90 minutes, paid for by leap card, and costing about 2.5 euro. There will also be short hop ticket, probably for trips of 2 or 3 stops, costing somewhat less than this. NTA and Dublin Bus would love to simplify fares and go cashless, politicians will come up with "hard cases" eg you have to pay a 5 euro deposit/reserve on your Leap Card


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:01 am 
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blanchguy wrote:
Agreed re bus stop spacing, I could lose the two nearest my house and the third is very near.r.


"Lose bus stops" oh yeah ? Will we come back to you at 85 and see do you still think that way :P

What you may notice if you look a little harder is how unfriendly cities are to old people. And Dublin is not the worst in Europe. But the old are still darted past impatiently as if they don't exist. The elderly are invisible in daily life.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:14 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
blanchguy wrote:
Agreed re bus stop spacing, I could lose the two nearest my house and the third is very near.r.


"Lose bus stops" oh yeah ? Will we come back to you at 85 and see do you still think that way :P

What you may notice if you look a little harder is how unfriendly cities are to old people. And Dublin is not the worst in Europe. But the old are still darted past impatiently as if they don't exist. The elderly are invisible in daily life.


A fair point, but is that the reason for too close together stops, if that is the reason then I need to think again about the distance between bus stops

But they still need to ditch cash fairs, thats an easy win for everyone

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
blanchguy wrote:
Agreed re bus stop spacing, I could lose the two nearest my house and the third is very near.r.


"Lose bus stops" oh yeah ? Will we come back to you at 85 and see do you still think that way :P

What you may notice if you look a little harder is how unfriendly cities are to old people. And Dublin is not the worst in Europe. But the old are still darted past impatiently as if they don't exist. The elderly are invisible in daily life.

I agree that cities can be unfriendly to older people - and this does concern me.

And so BECAUSE of that very issue I’d still like to see appropriate bus stops.
To me this means not an inefficient cluster of 3 bus stops for same route within 200m, and then none in some parts for 600 metres. It also means proper elderly-friendly bus kerbing (for using front and middle doors) and drivers that actually bother to pull in fully to the kerb, proper rain and wind sheltering at stops, and appropriately wide footpaths on major bus routes to cater for the footfall.

Wider footpaths allow people moving at different speeds to pass each other without stepping out on to the road. I bring this up as the elderly people on our road, quote it as the thing that makes them most anxious - feeling like they are getting in the way on the narrow path. Especially in poorer weather.

In classic Dublin fashion: our road is a suburban road with a reasonable footpath on one side, an almost unusably narrow footpath on the other side - with a large school on that side. The road lanes are at least a foot on either side wider than they really need to be. A small redesign of the distribution of space would work wonders for everyone. But this will never happen in Ireland.

All of this would make a meaningful difference to all bus passengers and pedestrians - but especially the elderly.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:28 pm 
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I haven't seen it with buses, and it would depend on how busy the route,
but in Tokyo on the trains, there are regular, express and limited express trains. Express skip stops. Limited express skip loads of stops.
Depending on your journey, you can change to a faster train that stops less often.

In Singapore, bus fares are cheap (and it is an integrated smart card system with the MRT, train system, based on total distance travelled) but what grinds my gears is: bus stops are busy with multiple bus routes stopping, first at the back and then once again when new passengers arrive at the stop, so usually twice at each stop.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:40 pm 
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The little-old-ladies argument is a bit silly IMHO.

Bus routes spread out radially from the city centre, generally with one to two kilometres between them. So someone living between two bus corridors already has to walk quite a distance to get to the bus corridor. I highly doubt that an extra hundred metres would make much of a difference to their mobility choices.

My grandmother never drove and doesn't use the bus at all now that she's in her 90s. It happened very quickly. There wasn't really an age when a marginal 200m to the bus stop would have made a difference to her choice to use it.


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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:31 pm 
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in relation to fares.. I've almost forgot how long it was taking to enter the bus in Dublin.
Now I use local leap card, but you can buy a ticket using a card and a terminals in every tram and bus here in Wrocław, Poland. You enter via any door and there is usually a terminal close by.
Actually they dont print tickets inside anymore - card is your ticket, you can still get printed ones in newspaper agents or in terminals on bus/tram stops.

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 Post subject: Re: "Bus Connects" CPO plans for Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
The little-old-ladies argument is a bit silly IMHO.

Bus routes spread out radially from the city centre, generally with one to two kilometres between them. So someone living between two bus corridors already has to walk quite a distance to get to the bus corridor. I highly doubt that an extra hundred metres would make much of a difference to their mobility choices.

My grandmother never drove and doesn't use the bus at all now that she's in her 90s. It happened very quickly. There wasn't really an age when a marginal 200m to the bus stop would have made a difference to her choice to use it.

Why silly?

They are two issues really:

One - is one of efficiency. Poorly clustered stops make the service slow and inefficient for all. Pair this with the complete lack of bus lane policing, and we have the current slow mess in Dublin.

Two - is of ease of use. Better infrastructure (footpaths, shelters) and driver discipline at stops, and better routing and loading, all encourage use for able-bodied and less-able passengers alike.

Some of these factors are more important for the less able. I’m thinking of my elderly neighbours, but also of myself in 20-30 years time. I’d tolerate a 500m walk on poor paths in bad weather to the bus stop now, and then stand there with no shelter in the wind and rain. But not sure I’d feel as able to do so if less abled.

Maybe in 20 years time I won’t worry about this as I’ll be using on demand autonomous car services.... and so sitting in traffic with everyone else! Or I’ll be dead! There’s a range of possibilities!


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