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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Nationalised

Joined: Sep 29, 2010
Posts: 8789
Location: London, innit
The latest target in Belvedere Place has planning permission granted in June for a refurb / besdsits to apartments.

Pity these lads don't have a trade


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 669
Open Window wrote:
Barmiest Loon wrote:
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


agreed. Muster up wide scale support for taxing the hell out of the property owners.

It is one thing illegally occupying as a peaceful protest but once an eviction notice has been served, the protesters are defying a court order.

I understand all the frustration re the lack of housing, but wide scale support of defying the courts just leads to anarchy, much to the detriment of society.


Ok a reasonable point but you have the same courts playing political football with housing repossessions for a decade causing a form of let's call it, housing anarchy for tens of thousands of people (maybe hundreds of thousands) all the while continual government policy compounds matters in one direction i.e. "worse" and that has resulted in verifiable deaths in the extreme (for e.g. Green Party legislation removing bedits) versus what? Keeping up appearances???.

We need to really define this flavour of anarchy you (rhetorical) are not willing to countenance in more real terms. Please.


When I say anarchy I don't really mean people taking up arms against the state, more that a creeping disregard for the laws of land gains a widespread acceptance which can cause significant societal problems.

For example, I agree that the courts are playing political football with housing repossessions, in that they seem very reluctant to actually grant a repossession; they are continually kicking the can down the road. This is thanks to a creeping disregard, politically and socially, for contract law and is causing huge societal problems, not least a contributing factor to the housing crisis.

It's frustrating to see, but at least when a court finally orders a repossession, by and large it is enforced, and that is a good thing.

We have to got to stage where public and political opinion is influencing the willingness of courts to enforce the law, which is a ridiculous state of affairs if you think about it.

Worse still, we're in danger of getting the stage where it is ok to openly flout the law, if public opinion apparently supports it. That is the flavour of anarchy I am talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
Yes there is a problem with affordable housing, but disregarding another citizens property rights is not going to fix it. Undermining one citizens property rights undermines all citizens property rights.
In this case, according to the protester the villains are the property hoarders. But, there are lots of reasons why a property can be vacant. (Problems with a will, organizing the capital required for development...etc.)
The mob often goes after the wrong suspect.

IMHO, the lefties are very muddled up in their ideology. They want a type of globalism, but then when global finances arrives on their shores they pick on the local property developers.

Also the doxing of the owner of that property was a cowardly act.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 4425
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
Quote:
If you look at the photographs and videos from the protest at North Frederick Street where housing activists occupied and vacated an empty building, the obvious question is : whose side were the gardaí on?

Perhaps this is an unfair question, but it’s one plenty of people following the events online and on the streets will ask. After protestors marched to Store Street garda station, they stood outside chanting “Who do you protect? Who do you serve?”

Unidentified men men wearing balaclavas emerged from a van to enter and then seal the property on Tuesday. The photographs show them standing at a door with gardaí in the foreground. The garda were also wearing balaclavas. Garda sources say they are part of the Public Order Units protective uniforms and have have also said that the Garda involved would have been concerned about reprisals on foot of being identified on social media.

This may well be the case but if anyone was seeking images or an incident to stoke the embers of an incendiary mood in Dublin, they need look no further. For the gardaí to enter the fray in this manner, masked and brandishing batons, was brutish and foolish. The housing crisis is emotionally charged, and on North Frederick Street, the gardaí merely escalated the situation. Protestors were arrested, some ended up in hospital. What’s going on?


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishti ... mode%3Damp

Inevitably Una seeks to hop on the bandwagon....surprisingly I happen to agree with some of what she says...

Unsurprisingly, a number of the activists involved in the occupation the other evening are veterans of the abortion referendum campaign where they proudly documented online their dismantling of pro life posters around Dublin. I was derided by a number of contributors to this site at that time for suggesting that many of the classically liberal minded supporters of that campaign would do well to take note of the broader objectives of a subsection of prominent repealers who viewed it as a means to advance an entryist hard left agenda of rather than simply a question of access to abortion services.

It's worth pointing out that 10 years ago, a referendum on the extinguishing of the rights of the unborn would have stood zero chance of passing in Ireland. If the likes of Una and her cohort are fully on board with this, and it comes to be appropriated as the next hot ticket after abortion by the trendy brigade, who's to say property rights couldn't go the same way ? Seems fantastical now but so did Brexit and trump....


FYI. There was in interesting reversal on the streets of Dublin between 1983 and 2018. Although on both occasions the Yes side canvassers / supporters greatly outnumbered the No side canvassers / supporters. Such is the vagaries of politics. What was very different between 1983 and 2018 was in 2018 the very much in the minority No canvassers were politely ignored on all occasions I saw them whereas I personally witnessed in 1983 the No canvassers of the time being verbally abused and personally threatened on several occasions on the streets in Central Dublin. One particularly nasty occasion on Kildare St comes to mind. As for removal of posters No posters may have been tampered with in 2018 but one thing I did not see in 2018 was No posters torn down and left for all to see. Which was a fairly common sight in Dublin in 1983. Thinking back I dont think I remember seeing a single No poster anywhere outside Dublin in the lead up to that referendum.

As for Frederick St, just the usual media attention whores deliberately creating high profile incidents so they can get attention and ultimately money for their own pet projects. A cynical stunt pure and simple. Got zero to do with the accommodation problem. Which Dublin has always had. Its always been an expensive place to rent, with terrible choice, low quality stock and mostly terrible landlords and essentially non existent tenants legal protection. Little has changed in the last forty odd years. Nothing new about any of this.

So some stupid media stunt will do nothing to change any of that.

Want a better functioning market with housing? Then for a start how about evicting the tens of thousands of people who defaulted on their mortgages knowing full well that the dysfunctional Irish legal system would not deal with them like in other countries. Or promptly evicting the cute hoor farmers in Meath and their ilk. Hundred of those scattered about the country. And how about a French style property tax on all empty properties. That should bring at least 80% of the 200K unused properties onto the rental / resale market. And as the planning / zoning system does not work in Ireland and never can given its political culture just abolish it completely. A simple engineering integrity / safety permitted process, nothing more. Then you will have large amounts of "affordable" housing built in short order.

But the people behind Fredrick St have no interest in any of these workable solutions because there is nothing in it for them. They are just another group of hucksters and hustlers in it for their own ends. Their own personal gain.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
Gene Kerrigan: When democracy wears a black mask (paywalled)
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/colu ... 20494.html

...but discussed on reddit ... some good points re: total wealth
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/commen ... lack_mask/


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Nov 4, 2011
Posts: 6050
Location: SthDub
For the record and so that a link to Gene Kerrigan's regurgitated lefty diatribes is not the last word on this, that Garda pictured above was identified on social media over the weekend apparently with the help of facial recognition software. And so ensued the personal attacks and threats against him the last few days.

I look forward to the extensive Irish Times/Gene Kerrigan etc opinion pieces and editorials on this sinister development in their coverage this week. Perhaps they may even address John Connor's calling Gardai 'scum' on The Late Late Show Friday night and his extensive follow ups to that on twitter. I've a feeling I'll be disappointed!


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:44 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Posts: 1006
Interestingly enough I was talking to an Indian guy a few weeks back re the dublin housing crisis. He said that in India when the state fails catastrophically people take things into their own hands. When there is no housing people create their own - they live in partially completed office blocks, build shanty towns - he said the Dublin equivalent would be that the Phoenix park would be a tented village, the empty office blocks on the canal would be teeming with life at night. I asked whether the police would interfere - he said only if they were in a rich persons property, the police tend not to act as their actions would show up the states incompetence.

I was thinking that could never happen here and then remembered that in the early 80's when I was a student there were squats all over Dublin, mainly old georgian houses and basements - the popular story was that they were owned by people who'd gone to England to work and just left them intending to come back some day. Ones I remember for sure were a place off Dorset st occupied by Architecture students from Bolton St, a house in Sandymount, a rambling mansion in Dundrum that I think the builder who owned it was hoping would get burnt down as a consequence of some wild party. Most famous was the one in Leeson St - I think it's now a hotel - it had a fancy portico and cast iron balconies and you got in by using a rope - you used to see people going in and out of there regularly.

There was a housing crisis then - in this case caused by a mass migration from rural Ireland in pursuit of civil service jobs that were offered to the children of anyone who voted FF.

I think the occupy movement is a good idea but they should just move on as soon as they get a judgement against them - by moving quickly and continually they could show the sheer number of vacant properties in this city - and by good luck (and a bit of careful investigation) they could end up in some fairly embarassing (politically, socially) properties. Once it became obvious that there was a very good chance of your vacant property being spotted I think things might move more quickly at government level. I agree that the current approach is just grandstanding by people who are after a political career rather than a proper popular rolling protest which would be sufficiently diffuse to spread the energies of the state agencies and force them to deal with smaller numbers of 'real' people rather than a small hardened group of people who can be easily portrayed as rabble-rousers and agitators. There are ways to do this - you just need to read your history.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:14 am 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
Garda continues to receive death threats after protest despite investigation
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/g ... 27917.html

Justice minister supports legislation to ban photographing gardaí in the course of their duties
http://www.thejournal.ie/photographing- ... 3-Sep2018/

Labour's Brendan Howlin says Take Back The City is something 'he wouldn't be associated with'
http://www.thejournal.ie/howlin-take-ba ... 3-Sep2018/


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 2994
Location: Oighearland
FreeFallin wrote:
For the record and so that a link to Gene Kerrigan's regurgitated lefty diatribes is not the last word on this, that Garda pictured above was identified on social media over the weekend apparently with the help of facial recognition software. And so ensued the personal attacks and threats against him the last few days.

I look forward to the extensive Irish Times/Gene Kerrigan etc opinion pieces and editorials on this sinister development in their coverage this week. Perhaps they may even address John Connor's calling Gardai 'scum' on The Late Late Show Friday night and his extensive follow ups to that on twitter. I've a feeling I'll be disappointed!


who has the facial recognition software and a searchable database to search through?

Are employees in the big tech facilitating this?

_________________
advice to future unemployed TDs at the next general election: dont look at it as a failure, see it as an opportunity to 'upskill'.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
Taoiseach: Protests are welcome but they 'aren't going to build any houses'
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingn ... 69824.html

Quote:
"Protests are part of democracy and protests are welcome, they are part of a healthy democracy. However, protests should be peaceful and they should occur in accordance with the law."


Quote:
He said: "Protests aren't going to build any houses, but Government will build houses and the private sector will build houses as well.

"And that will ultimately be the solution to this problem.


Varadkar rejects Sinn Féin rent-freeze proposal
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.3633167

Quote:
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has rejected a Sinn Féin proposal to freeze rents as “tinkering around the edges” of the housing crisis.

He said that “to every complex issue there is a reasonable and simple solution that doesn’t work and a rent freeze is probably one of those”.


Taoiseach slaps down Justice Minister on garda photo ban at protests
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/tao ... 69836.html


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