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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:14 pm 
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First Time Buyer

Joined: Oct 16, 2015
Posts: 93
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I assume they're seeking to draw attention to a connection between the McGreal family and balaclava-clad, weapon-wielding thugs who (the assumption must be) the family employed to clear a vacant property of a bunch of crusties....Im assuming thats the intent ie to seek to shame them in some way....


What weapons?? Haven't seen anything so far about weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 116
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Mar 30, 2016
Posts: 650
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Posts: 23016
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


The States ultimate recourse is force and nothing else to consolidate it's authority. That can be revoked by an over-powering force. Originating from one or both Internal or external sources.

So what's your point in the wider context?

Keep in mind that constitutional amendments have occurred to make law argued and won on such counter points to yours, if I am understanding your points correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Mar 30, 2016
Posts: 650
Open Window wrote:
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


The States ultimate recourse is force and nothing else to consolidate it's authority. That can be revoked by an over-powering force. Originating from one or both Internal or external sources.

So what's your point in the wider context?

Keep in mind that constitutional amendments have occurred to make law argued and won on such counter points to yours, if I am understanding your points correctly.


whats my point?

My point is that i support any measure used to evict these freeloaders from someone elses property.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 23, 2011
Posts: 626
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


agreed. Muster up wide scale support for taxing the hell out of the property owners.

It is one thing illegally occupying as a peaceful protest but once an eviction notice has been served, the protesters are defying a court order.

I understand all the frustration re the lack of housing, but wide scale support of defying the courts just leads to anarchy, much to the detriment of society.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Posts: 23016
cyrusir wrote:
Open Window wrote:
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


The States ultimate recourse is force and nothing else to consolidate it's authority. That can be revoked by an over-powering force. Originating from one or both Internal or external sources.

So what's your point in the wider context?

Keep in mind that constitutional amendments have occurred to make law argued and won on such counter points to yours, if I am understanding your points correctly.


whats my point?

My point is that i support any measure used to evict these freeloaders from someone elses property.


Good.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 116
From what I've heard they've already mapped out where the other vacant properties are across the city. The optics from last night were terrible for the state and something the movement will probably highlight all day long. They have the awareness now. I'd obviously prefer if they directed their protests towards policy makers instead but I'm guessing this is one of the first of many occupations they will make.


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Feb 4, 2011
Posts: 1499
Location: A rock drifting aimlessly in the north atlantic
Open Window wrote:

C'mon that's really a strawman in reply to a clarification - let's not everyone, lose the run of ourselves. It's not as if someone has argued we use feather dusters to tickle them out of their state of occupational ire or some such nonsense to move them. You're looking at what appears to be a political protest, maybe a small movement, that considering the topic could become a big movement someday. It's always to play for. What's so hard to understand?

Further is it so hard to fantom in the context?

I guess some people are still easily bemused and can't imagine why the issue of property/housing and having somewhere stable to live in Ireland would be such a potentially contentious issues.

Perhaps an article like this helps to clarify the motivations and the political nature the people involved.

Quote:
...Activists then turned their attention to 34 Frederick St, which has no connection to the Summerhill properties.

Organisers of the protests say they want: "To continue to highlight the causes of this housing crisis, one of which is land hoarding and speculation by private owners."

A spokesperson for the network said "public representatives aren't beyond targeting" when asked about why they are now occupying the house in Belvedere Court.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/w ... 96225.html


Such sentiments are in line with the many years of threads expressing same or similar frustrations over the life time of this forum.

If they are "idiots" then we're all "idiots" fighting over the how and what but never truly addressing the why, means we all remain idiots don't ya think?



I was being facetious, but really what did the protesters expect was going to happen?

The owning family are probably not doing/involved anything sinister. From what I gather, the building needs total renovation, which is what I believe they plan to do, but there is no pressure on them to speed this up as there is no financial penalty for not doing so and the property is increasing in value.

Many have said that a site value tax, or an extra penalty on property tax for derelict properties will sort much of the issue of land/property hoarding. Politicians know there are no votes in doing this, so unlikely to happen soon.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 23016
Barmiest Loon wrote:
cyrusir wrote:
bubbletrouble wrote:
Hoarding vacant property in a city with a property crisis (and elsewhere) at the detriment of society is just wrong. I'm all for taxing the crap out of vacant/derelict property/sites after a certain amount of time passed.


thats fair enough and you are entitled to your opinion, but thats a long way from illegally occupying.


agreed. Muster up wide scale support for taxing the hell out of the property owners.

It is one thing illegally occupying as a peaceful protest but once an eviction notice has been served, the protesters are defying a court order.

I understand all the frustration re the lack of housing, but wide scale support of defying the courts just leads to anarchy, much to the detriment of society.


Ok a reasonable point but you have the same courts playing political football with housing repossessions for a decade causing a form of let's call it, housing anarchy for tens of thousands of people (maybe hundreds of thousands) all the while continual government policy compounds matters in one direction i.e. "worse" and that has resulted in verifiable deaths in the extreme (for e.g. Green Party legislation removing bedits) versus what? Keeping up appearances???.

We need to really define this flavour of anarchy you (rhetorical) are not willing to countenance in more real terms. Please.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 810
British-registered van used by 'heavies' in Dublin eviction previously used by Greater Manchester Police
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/b ... 08796.html

Quote:
In an affidavit posted on the door of the house, Mr Colm McGreal, the father of the owner, said they intend to transform the property into a guest house.


Quote:
Organisers of the protests say they want: "To continue to highlight the causes of this housing crisis, one of which is land hoarding and speculation by private owners."


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6175
Location: On the Road
Magpie wrote:
Open Window wrote:

C'mon that's really a strawman in reply to a clarification - let's not everyone, lose the run of ourselves. It's not as if someone has argued we use feather dusters to tickle them out of their state of occupational ire or some such nonsense to move them. You're looking at what appears to be a political protest, maybe a small movement, that considering the topic could become a big movement someday. It's always to play for. What's so hard to understand?

Further is it so hard to fantom in the context?

I guess some people are still easily bemused and can't imagine why the issue of property/housing and having somewhere stable to live in Ireland would be such a potentially contentious issues.

Perhaps an article like this helps to clarify the motivations and the political nature the people involved.

Quote:
...Activists then turned their attention to 34 Frederick St, which has no connection to the Summerhill properties.

Organisers of the protests say they want: "To continue to highlight the causes of this housing crisis, one of which is land hoarding and speculation by private owners."

A spokesperson for the network said "public representatives aren't beyond targeting" when asked about why they are now occupying the house in Belvedere Court.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/w ... 96225.html


Such sentiments are in line with the many years of threads expressing same or similar frustrations over the life time of this forum.

If they are "idiots" then we're all "idiots" fighting over the how and what but never truly addressing the why, means we all remain idiots don't ya think?



I was being facetious, but really what did the protesters expect was going to happen?

The owning family are probably not doing/involved anything sinister. From what I gather, the building needs total renovation, which is what I believe they plan to do, but there is no pressure on them to speed this up as there is no financial penalty for not doing so and the property is increasing in value.

Many have said that a site value tax, or an extra penalty on property tax for derelict properties will sort much of the issue of land/property hoarding. Politicians know there are no votes in doing this, so unlikely to happen soon.


I agree with you but as we've seen for years there appears to be no political will to address this issue. We've all been banging on about this around here for a decade. I think there are even years old threads dedicated to the issue of taxing vacant properties.

As I see it, there is genuine discontent amongst people who don't usually share the same outlook as those who generally engage in these type of protests. Obviously many of the protesters and their supporters would be happy with the idea of seizing private property across the board, housing crisis or not. However, the fact that their actions are garnering what appears to be more mainstream support than would have been the case in the past is a function of inaction around the issue for years now. Many people, to include some with young families have simply nothing to lose.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 810
Housing protest LIVE updates as rally takes place on North Frederick Street in Dublin after eviction
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n ... y-13234568

Quote:
18:18
KEY EVENT
Crowd moving on: The crowd has now moved towards O’Connell Street.


Quote:
18:55
KEY EVENT
Traffic flowing normally now:

Our reporter Gavin O’Callaghan reports;

‘About 20 mins after “we’re not going anytime soon” they’ve moved on and traffic flowing normally on o Connell now’


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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 4179
Gardaí wearing balaclavas is simple not on.

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 Post subject: Re: 34 North Frederick Street eviction.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Single Home Owner

Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 116
snaps wrote:
Housing protest LIVE updates as rally takes place on North Frederick Street in Dublin after eviction
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-n ... y-13234568

Quote:
18:18
KEY EVENT
Crowd moving on: The crowd has now moved towards O’Connell Street.


Quote:
18:55
KEY EVENT
Traffic flowing normally now:

Our reporter Gavin O’Callaghan reports;

‘About 20 mins after “we’re not going anytime soon” they’ve moved on and traffic flowing normally on o Connell now’



RTE said 100 people. Friend was at it. Said 200 sitting down, probably another 200 watching from the paths.

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