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 Post subject: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance
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Ok so this is inspired by recent hikes in unemployment payments

e.g.

Thargor wrote:
Stolen from boards:
Quote:
Why are they bandying around the €5 a week figure. In reality, most on welfare have dependents, so thus there'll be a combination of:

€5 for the main claimant (198 -> 203)
€3.30 for a spouse / partner (131.4 -> 134.7)
€2.20 for each child under 12 (31.8 -> 34)
and €5.20 for each child over 12 (31.8 - 37)

For the "average" family of Mother, Father and two kids, that works out to €15.70 pw increase
A single parent with two kids works out to a 12.40 p/w increase

Adding the Christmas bonus (of a full weeks payments at €408.70) the nuclear family on welfare is seeing an increase of €23.48 p/w (or €1,221.10 per annum) after Budget 2019 while the single parent family with two kids on welfare (with a bonus payment of €274) is actually seeing an increase of €17.66.

This isn't a budget for the "squeezed middle", it's a budget for welfare recipients.

A single income family of the same nuclear makeup now needs an after-tax salary of €21,661.10 to match their unemployment benefits. Add in HAP/Social Housing and ancilliaries (back to school allowance etc) and it's making a mockery of anyone trying to raise a family on less than €50k per annum.


For most people, the cost of housing is their biggest payment to worry about. If you had that sorted, could you simply sign on for the next decade or two?

Let us use 2 adults and 2 kids under 12 for an example:

2019 Weekly income:

Main claimant (203)
Spouse / partner (134.70)
Per child under 12 (34) Per child over 12 (37)

Total 2 adults and 2 kids under 12:
405.70 weekly or 21,096.40 annual

2019 Sporadic income:

Back to school allowance: 150 per child under 12 (275 per child over 12) (Total 300 for 2 under 12s)

Fuel allowance: 27.50 x 27 weeks (742.50)

Christmas bonus of one extra weekly payment: 405.70

Total 2 adults and 2 kids under 12: 1,448.20

2019 Total income:
Overall annual total: 22,544.60
Overall weekly avg: 433.55

Could you live off €433 per week?

and we haven't spoke of other benefits such as
1) free medical card for family
2) commuting costs saved
3) lunch costs saved
4) childcare saved
5) seeing your kids more
6) big once off items like new beds/fridge/freezer/boiler/insulation are paid extra through Supplementary Welfare Allowance and grants


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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You'd always pick up a few days a week casual labour (cash in hand) if you wanted, especially if you had a trade or were handy.


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:55 pm 
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I think my housing costs have been below 10% of household income since my mid-twenties.

There are plenty of other things to spend money on. Raising kids is very expensive, not least because of all the cognac you have to drink to get through it.

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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Posts: 2118
The SW system is punitive on cash savings over €20k.

Meanwhile you can be living in a house worth €1m and it doesn't impact your benefits.


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
I think my housing costs have been below 10% of household income since my mid-twenties.

There are plenty of other things to spend money on. Raising kids is very expensive, not least because of all the cognac you have to drink to get through it.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Jun 23, 2011
Posts: 386
The low income family may also be entitled to a HAP Payment if living in a high rent area so the difference is not as clear cut. It's still a terrible system but the disincentive to employment that existed in the old RA system is gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:25 pm 
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It is tight to live on 22k a year for 2 adults and 2 kids. You could do it, but it would be a meagre existance. Not talking Stalingrad during the war here, but you'd soon get tired of it at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:29 pm 
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Epicurus wrote:
It is tight to live on 22k a year for 2 adults and 2 kids. You could do it, but it would be a meagre existance. Not talking Stalingrad during the war here, but you'd soon get tired of it at the same time.


Whats worse, a small house an hour commute from Dublin with both parents working and little time to see the kids versus probably a small house in the middle of nowhere with all day to do whatever?

Which poison would you choose?


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:37 am 
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Epicurus wrote:
It is tight to live on 22k a year for 2 adults and 2 kids. You could do it, but it would be a meagre existance. Not talking Stalingrad during the war here, but you'd soon get tired of it at the same time.


It's easier to live frugally as a single person.

Kids have certain expectations. And society has expectations of what you should provide your kids.

You can find lots of claims online where people say stuff like: "I live on $500 a month ex housing costs". None of them ever appear to have children.


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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Epicurus wrote:
It is tight to live on 22k a year for 2 adults and 2 kids. You could do it, but it would be a meagre existance. Not talking Stalingrad during the war here, but you'd soon get tired of it at the same time.


It's easier to live frugally as a single person.

Kids have certain expectations. And society has expectations of what you should provide your kids.

You can find lots of claims online where people say stuff like: "I live on $500 a month ex housing costs". None of them ever appear to have children.

So do wives! :x

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 Post subject: Re: Could you live off the dole if mortgage free?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Why it can pay to earn less in Ireland: Grants, pensions, medical cards

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/per ... -1.3673167


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