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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:52 pm 
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No anecdotes? The forum could implode without an auld anecdote here and there. Here's one to please the anecdote gods.

I do know such a person. Already has a house back home. They take days off* in lieu of overtime in their employment so that they aren't paid too much such that it'd affect their benefits. His Irish wife doesn't work and they're on a housing waiting list too.

* To clarify. This isn't paid leave. It's unpaid days off.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:22 pm 
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ok- quick devil's advocate here- three cases to compare:

Polish guy early 30s, in the country 9 years- living in homeless accommodation due to divorce and his subsequent landlord then selling the property he had rented a room in. Has a child and therefore is on the 2 bed waiting list. Has worked all the time he is here in a 24 hour rostered role. often has to mind his child in the daytime after working the night shift and goes into work again that evening with only 2 hours sleep under his belt on those days.

Algerian man. Divorced. three kids live with the ex. living in homeless accommodation as he was self employed/casual worker in the catering industry and couldn't make his rent payments on his one bed flat when work got a bit scarce. Goes out to work 4/5 nights a week and returns to homeless accommodation at 3;30 am on those nights, he has to share a room with an active, chaotic drug user.


Irish man. mid twenties. has three kids and separated from partner. has never had a proper job or fully supported his kids and has another girl pregnant. Refuses to engage with education or training options. Is on the two bed list but only sees his kids as and when he feels like it. supplements his €100 social welfare payment acting as a runner for a medium scale drug dealer. Is never out of bed before lunch time.

Who do you think deserves priority housing out of the three homeless people above? Should nationality/ethnicity come into it? Local authority officials are not fools.

For all we know that family in the photo have done their time on the waiting list like any other applicant


For the record the optics of the photo are bad but the twitter comments are bile inducing.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:41 pm 
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How long before people begin to associate attempted actions such as the following with twitter pictures such as that in the OP.....

Quote:

Knocklyon FC Chairman says club could fold if 42 social houses built on land

The head of Knocklyon United says the Dublin club could fold if plans for 42 social housing homes go ahead.


The pitches at Ballycullen Park are leased to the club but South Dublin County Council is to take the land back to build homes.

The football club's Chairman Donal Skelly says they have 600 kids with the new girls-only teams the fastest growing group.

Mr Skelly claims the development puts that at risk.


"The Council wants to build 42 houses on (our) pitch, plus around the corner of our site leading up to the road which is about 70% of the land (at Ballycullen Park)," he said.

"If we lose this pitch it's absolutely devastating to the club."
"We need to be able to maintain this. As a club, we have nothing against social housing, we see the need for it, but this is not the right location," he said.

Digital Desk

Knocklyon UnitedBallycullen ParkHousingSocial Housing


https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/amp.iris ... 58683.html

I suppose the answer to the questions in and around these issues lies in examining who it is exactly that benefits most from current policy .....and why.....

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:13 pm 
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paracetomol wrote:
Yes, it's very open to abuse and difficult to monitor. I've heard countless stories I won't bother to repeat here because I'll get the usual "the plural of anecdote is not data" kind of responses, or be called a racist, but suffice to say it's disruptive to the basic social contract we enter into when we pay tax and support those who need it.


Which comes first, Data or Life?

What are we but mere witnesses to our own life, carry on and post what anecdotes you have encountered for the sake of the whole.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:21 pm 
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tommyt wrote:
ok- quick devil's advocate here- three cases to compare:

Polish guy early 30s, in the country 9 years- living in homeless accommodation due to divorce and his subsequent landlord then selling the property he had rented a room in. Has a child and therefore is on the 2 bed waiting list. Has worked all the time he is here in a 24 hour rostered role. often has to mind his child in the daytime after working the night shift and goes into work again that evening with only 2 hours sleep under his belt on those days.

Algerian man. Divorced. three kids live with the ex. living in homeless accommodation as he was self employed/casual worker in the catering industry and couldn't make his rent payments on his one bed flat when work got a bit scarce. Goes out to work 4/5 nights a week and returns to homeless accommodation at 3;30 am on those nights, he has to share a room with an active, chaotic drug user.


Irish man. mid twenties. has three kids and separated from partner. has never had a proper job or fully supported his kids and has another girl pregnant. Refuses to engage with education or training options. Is on the two bed list but only sees his kids as and when he feels like it. supplements his €100 social welfare payment acting as a runner for a medium scale drug dealer. Is never out of bed before lunch time.

Who do you think deserves priority housing out of the three homeless people above? Should nationality/ethnicity come into it? Local authority officials are not fools.

For all we know that family in the photo have done their time on the waiting list like any other applicant


For the record the optics of the photo are bad but the twitter comments are bile inducing.


I agree the Twitter comments are horrible. But in relation to your point: housing policy used to measure your eligibility for public housing partly by your connections to the neighbourhood and general area. This was sidelined in the 70s in favour of "need", prioritising those with the most children, risk of homelessness, disability etc - and the fallout from this was that it provided perverse incentives to get to the top of the list. When you extend this policy to the people of the entire world, it starts to be a real problem. Newly arrived immigrants are more likely to be able to declare themselves homeless,some groups have large families, all the criteria for getting to the top of the list. And this creates resentment in the local population, and anger that historic resources in the form of tax take, are being spent on outsiders. I know you talk about a Polish person or Algerian person on the housing list for nine years and having "served their time" but this is meaningless to a lot of Irish people, and just looks like gaming the system. None of us would get the slightest help with accommodation if we were to move to Poland or Algeria, where wages are much lower. The traffic is only going in one direction and there's been no slowdown at all, quite the opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:25 pm 
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paracetomol wrote:
But in relation to your point: housing policy used to measure your eligibility for public housing partly by your connections to the neighbourhood and general area. This was sidelined in the 70s in favour of "need", prioritising those with the most children, risk of homelessness, disability etc - and the fallout from this was that it provided perverse incentives to get to the top of the list. When you extend this policy to the people of the entire world, it starts to be a real problem. Newly arrived immigrants are more likely to be able to declare themselves homeless,some groups have large families, all the criteria for getting to the top of the list. And this creates resentment in the local population, and anger that historic resources in the form of tax take, are being spent on outsiders. I know you talk about a Polish person or Algerian person on the housing list for nine years and having "served their time" but this is meaningless to a lot of Irish people, and just looks like gaming the system. None of us would get the slightest help with accommodation if we were to move to Poland or Algeria, where wages are much lower. The traffic is only going in one direction and there's been no slowdown at all, quite the opposite.


Long-game to game the system to be gamed.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:17 am 
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When half the people on the list are foreign nationals they are clearly over represented and there needs to be some assessment of the situation.
There are literally millions up millions of very worthy people who are in abject poverty facing tough shitty lives with and without disabilities.

Once you realise you cannot save the whole world your view changes. It is better to help people in their own countries where our money goes further.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:11 pm 
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tommyt wrote:
Should nationality/ethnicity come into it?


Quite simply, yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:48 am 
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tinneym wrote:
tommyt wrote:
Should nationality/ethnicity come into it?


Quite simply, yes.


Good luck with that. Would you like to have a go at defining who is Irish?

What immediately comes to mind for me is which one of these was the more Irish band- U2 or the Smiths?

U2 - for the most part sons of English men raised in middle class Dublin.

The Smiths- Sons of rural Irish men forced by economic circumstances to move and rear their children in Manchester.


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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:39 am 
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I agree with Tommy to a large extent, the only point I would make is that the Polish lad and the Algerian lad don't have a vote and won't therefore vote for some populist cunt like Gilroy. Your Irish drug dealer type will find time between drops to vote.

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:36 am 
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Always illuminating to observe the 'progressives' in action.

Would there be much diversity out Dalkey way?

Quote:

Social justice activist Denise Charlton has joined broadcaster Pat Kenny in opposing an apartment development in Dalkey, even though it is to be built on land owned by family members.

Charlton, a former chief executive of the Immigrant Council of Ireland, has lodged an objection with Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown county council against plans by Bartra Property to build 19 flats and seven houses on a 1.5-acre site encompassing her parents’ former home and a house owned by her sister, Gearóidín, a solicitor. She claims the proposed estate will devalue her nearby home at Bloyke


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/irel ... -d80krfxvc

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 Post subject: Re: Irish Gov Social Housing Policy 5th Nov 2018 - In a Twe
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Noel Rock TD said that the Omar family in the original tweet have been in Ireland and on the housing list for 14 years
and have acquired Irish citizenship


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