Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Republic of Property

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:13 pm 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
@JohnnyTheFox @tulip
Thanks. But I really can't accept.
It is not equivalence. Obviously I am highlighting an extreme example to illustrate that it's not an clear argument for. There are issues of precedent, religious issues and issues of state transgression.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:18 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 22, 2007
Posts: 1921
snaps wrote:
@JohnnyTheFox @tulip
Thanks. But I really can't accept.
It is not equivalence. Obviously I am highlighting an extreme example to illustrate that it's not an clear argument for. There are issues of precedent, religious issues and issues of state transgression.


They did those things without the laws being in place and is a cultural problem which is in the process of being resolved. There were civic and religious laws against dumping babies down toilets but that never stopped it from happening.

_________________
No tool is omnicompetent. There is no such thing as a master-key that will unlock all doors.
--Arnold Toynbee

If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.
--Epictetus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:47 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jul 10, 2009
Posts: 2299
Shirley it would be easier for them make a mistake and say they thought you had opted in, and hopefully if brain transplants become a thing the type of people who get bothered by this have opted out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:26 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5474
snaps wrote:
Obviously I am highlighting an extreme example to illustrate that it's not an clear argument for. There are issues of precedent, religious issues and issues of state transgression.

You haven't highlighted an extreme example of organ harvesting from dead people who haven't explicitly consented.

You've used an example of State-directed murder of political prisoners in order to harvest organs.

That's like saying that cannibalism is an extreme example of barbecue.

It's ridiculous.

_________________
"It's easy to confuse what is with what ought to be, especially when what is has worked out in your favour"
Tyrion Lannister


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:01 am 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
@Eschatologist
The Chinese example is nothing to do with any type of "consent", tacit or explicit.
The Chinese example is an extreme example of organ harvesting where the state is all powerful.

The Irish states' organ grab is about tacit approval.
They are assuming they have dibs on dead citizens organs, unless that citizen had said otherwise. A power they didn't have before.

As I said,
Quote:
There are issues of precedent, religious issues and issues of state transgression.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:29 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 2994
Location: Oighearland
Open Window wrote:
Organ harvesting next on the agenda.

Quote:
Legislation for ‘opt-out’ organ donation to be published next month

Consent deemed granted unless person has registered their wish not to become a donor

Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 01:00

Ireland remains one of a few EU countries not to have an opt-out system. The Bill will also regulate the removal, retention, storage, use and disposal of human tissue from deceased persons. File photograph: Getty Images

Thirteen years after first being proposed, long-awaited legislation allowing “opt-out” organ donation in Ireland will be published next month by Minister for Health Simon Harris.
The Human Tissues Bill arose out of recommendations of the Madden Report in 2015. It primarily looked at practices where organs were removed from the bodies of deceased children and infants without the consent of their parents.

Successive governments have promised to publish the Bill and it was included in the Programme for Government of the current Fine Gael-led Coalition in 2016.
The documentary last week on RTÉ reminded us how vital this piece of legislation is and how essential organ donation is

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.3640119


"The documentary last week on RTÉ reminded us how vital this piece of legislation is and how essential organ donation is"

get the ole heart-string tugging underway and promote someone to the hilt to achieve this.

the concept of bodily autonomy was corrupted to pass the 36th amendment, and now this. :sick:

_________________
advice to future unemployed TDs at the next general election: dont look at it as a failure, see it as an opportunity to 'upskill'.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:09 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6334
Location: On the Road
I'm curious as to why anyone would be in favour of the State assigning itself de facto property rights over constituent parts of their own body.

People already donate organs if they make a personal choice to do so. Whats the issue with continuing the current system ie where people are required to have opted in?

Indeed, given the current ongoing public debate around the definition of consent as applied to cases of alleged rape or sexual assault, to include the non-acceptance of any form of 'implied consent' as a defence, including between married couples, it would seem potentially problematic for the State to be seeking to legislate in the opposite direction on this issue i.e. what would this be if not a form of 'implied consent'?

_________________
"It is difficult to be certain about anything except what you have seen with your own eyes, and consciously or unconsciously everyone writes as a partisan.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:47 pm 
Offline
First Time Buyer

Joined: Jul 24, 2018
Posts: 99
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I'm curious as to why anyone would be in favour of the State assigning itself de facto property rights over constituent parts of their own body.

People already donate organs if they make a personal choice to do so. Whats the issue with continuing the current system ie where people are required to have opted in?

Indeed, given the current ongoing public debate around the definition of consent as applied to cases of alleged rape or sexual assault, to include the non-acceptance of any form of 'implied consent' as a defence, including between married couples, it would seem potentially problematic for the State to be seeking to legislate in the opposite direction on this issue i.e. what would this be if not a form of 'implied consent'?


I guess you can out out then. Problem solved.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:26 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: May 18, 2007
Posts: 6334
Location: On the Road
propertyspire wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
I'm curious as to why anyone would be in favour of the State assigning itself de facto property rights over constituent parts of their own body.

People already donate organs if they make a personal choice to do so. Whats the issue with continuing the current system ie where people are required to have opted in?

Indeed, given the current ongoing public debate around the definition of consent as applied to cases of alleged rape or sexual assault, to include the non-acceptance of any form of 'implied consent' as a defence, including between married couples, it would seem potentially problematic for the State to be seeking to legislate in the opposite direction on this issue i.e. what would this be if not a form of 'implied consent'?


I guess you can out out then. Problem solved.


I guess married women should also be required to explicitly opt out of unwanted sex with their husband post-marriage lest the assumption of their having consented be implied by virtue of the existence of a marriage contract?

_________________
"It is difficult to be certain about anything except what you have seen with your own eyes, and consciously or unconsciously everyone writes as a partisan.”
― George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: All Your Organ Are Belong to Us
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:46 am 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 974
@propertyspire

No, the problem would not be solved.
By opting out, you are also tacitly agreeing with a system whereby the state can have dibs on a dead citizens organs if the don't explicitly consent.


Top
 Profile  
 



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Republic of Property

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: E92 335i, mikewest and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com