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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Quality! Keep up the pressure everyone keep the communication flowing!

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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:12 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

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From an Independent -


Quote:
Thank you very much for taking the time to email me personally about the draft NAMA legislation. I share your concern about the lack of clarity in the legislation on some of the key issues for all of us. Indeed, when the bank guarantee scheme was put before us in the Oireachtas last autumn, I was one of the very few members who voted against it (I was the only independent Senator to do so), also because I was unhappy with the lack of information forthcoming from Minister Brian Lenihan as to the extent of the liabilities of the banks.
Since that date, we have seen more and more information emerge about the outrageously reckless lending practices of the banks and financial institutions, and indeed we have now nationalised one of the banks (Anglo-Irish) and recapitalised others (again I voted against those measures on principle, on the grounds that we were not given sufficient information to be clear that this would not amount to a bad use of public money).
Now, my fear is that the NAMA legislation will amount to a further propping-up of the banks, without sufficient safeguards for the public, or sufficient powers of scrutiny to ensure that banks begin to act in the public interest. My fear has been confirmed by the recent unilateral raising of interest rates by one of the banks, and the suggestions that interest rates may now be raised by others.
I do not believe we have evidence that NAMA has sufficient information as to how to value the current market price of property, land etc; I am concerned that the current market price of these is in fact going to decline for a number of years, and I think the people who devised the NAMA plan were not thinking correctly.
I have publicly stated my support for the alternative policy (supported by a wide range of independent economists) of temporary nationalisation of the banks, to ensure greater control of them and scrutiny of their practices; and in particular to ensure that the public interest could for the first time become their guiding principle in their lending and other business practices.


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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:37 pm 
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Joined: May 3, 2007
Posts: 315
Sent this today to 4 local TD's


"I am writing to you to make clear our concerns regarding the proposed NAMA legislation.

The recent Carroll case in the High Court and Supreme Court has exposed to the public the current value of property in Ireland. After years of trying to ride the crest of a hollow wave, we are now crashing, as we inevitably had to.

The “long-term economic valuation” that is proposed for NAMA is an amazing thing. The High Court described it as “fanciful”. The Supreme Court went even further, saying there was no objective evidence to support such a valuation. In fact, anyone giving serious consideration to the long-term value of property in Ireland would conclude that Irish property is still OVER-valued! When the average house returns to costing perhaps 5 times the average wage, we will have returned to normal. That is still some way off.

It would seem that NAMA is being set up to avoid nationalisation of the main banks. Why? Would a nationalised bank perform any worse than, say, Anglo-Irish? “But we must get banks lending again”. How is that related to nationalisation? If a client represented a good risk, the bank would lend. If they don’t, then why should the bank give them money? In fact, are we now not criticising the banks for doing precisely the things that would have kept us out of this mess in the first place?

NAMA, as proposed, will purchase assets at a multiple of the current market value, transferring massive wealth from every man, woman and child in this country to the Bondholders and Shareholders of the major financial institutions. And what will happen? Those that got us into this mess will dance away scot-free, the banks (rid of their dodgy debt) will very quickly return to profit and be snapped up by foreign institutions, and the taxpayer will be left holding the baby. A phrase already exists for what is proposed: NAMA will “privatise the profits, socialise the losses”.

I have read about Ireland of the past, about failed economic policies, about corrupt politicians, about abuse of children, about the devastation of emigration, and wondered how the electorate of the times let those things happen. I vowed that if I ever saw something as corrupt and stupid happening again I would do everything in my power to stop it.

Let this house of cards fall. Let the Government stand ready, and where true poverty and hardship and need appear, let the Government step in. I will pay more tax to prevent hardship, and I will pay more tax to heal the wounds hardship causes. But why should I pay more tax to line the pockets of developers and bank shareholders? They knew the risks they were taking, and in the blind pursuit of profit, they have almost brought the State to its knees.

If NAMA is to be implemented, I could support it if:

(a) we bought up most of the Share Capital of the banks, thereby reaping whatever long-term gain comes to pass,
(b) we pursued every reckless borrower for every cent lent, and
(c) if the banks shed, without golden handshakes or golden parachutes or golden buckets and spades, every reckless lender.

It is my opinion, however, that NAMA as currently proposed is a dreadful mistake. You may have a different opinion. Other deputies, and other parties, may have other views again. One thing is certain though. This will affect us for decades to come.

Please carefully consider all the facts before taking a position on NAMA. We are sleepwalking towards the edge of an abyss."

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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:37 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Aug 8, 2008
Posts: 3635
Location: Cathair na dTreabh
From my local green organisation:
Thank you for your feedback, I am of course disappointed that you have lost faith in the Greens but I hope that we can work to rebuild it.
We are currently undergoing an extensive consultation with a members on NAMA that so far has involved a members conference and two seminars on the topic. The issue of pricing is of course crucial, but so too is the planning aspect. The heads of the bill published last month has had strong Green impact in several ways - the Board of NAMA will include not just economists but also planners. The Minister for the Environment will also be given stronger powers to ensure that greenfield sites that have no potential for development are taken from the banks at extremely low prices.
However, as our Party Chairman commented Sunday, further amendments to the bill are needed and we hope to use our position in Government to ensure that these changes are made before the bill comes into law. I hope you will continue to communicate with us during this period. Yours etc..


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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Speculator

Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 428
Curb83 wrote:
ZZ Topless wrote:
The best one that I received so far, defo not a copy and paste job:

"I'm totally in favour of it.

We need to get these bastards who have borrowed the billions and brought down the country out of the picture entirely, so the banks can lend out to ordinary people and companies which isn't happening now.

The only people still getting money from banks at the moment are property developers. NAMA will change that entirely.

We need to stand up for the people not the developers. That's why I am for NAMA."


Is that for real? Surely not? You're taking the piss right? Because...i'm speechless if that is actually for real... :shock:



This is for real. I got it too.


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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:24 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 30, 2009
Posts: 2153
dame wrote:
Curb83 wrote:
ZZ Topless wrote:
The best one that I received so far, defo not a copy and paste job:

"I'm totally in favour of it.

We need to get these bastards who have borrowed the billions and brought down the country out of the picture entirely, so the banks can lend out to ordinary people and companies which isn't happening now.

The only people still getting money from banks at the moment are property developers. NAMA will change that entirely.

We need to stand up for the people not the developers. That's why I am for NAMA."


Is that for real? Surely not? You're taking the piss right? Because...i'm speechless if that is actually for real... :shock:



This is for real. I got it too.


Whos that from guys. Why the secrecy?


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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:36 pm 
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The Naked Chef wrote:
Whos that from guys. Why the secrecy?


Because unless they want to swear affidavits we can't verify any of these responses.

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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Jan 30, 2009
Posts: 2153
The Unwelcome Guest wrote:
The Naked Chef wrote:
Whos that from guys. Why the secrecy?


Because unless they want to swear affidavits we can't verify any of these responses.


Oh. Good point.


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 Post subject: Re: Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 23258
An email header would do it for me.

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