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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2737
GameBlame wrote:
Daly and McDonough are up against it here
Nama can bullshit and bully loads of people but bluster only goes so far. I expect a blustering appearance from Daly in which every word will be parsed and aggressive but equivocal and full of blithe non sequiturs.


Ready
Steady
Dissemble !

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2791233


Quote:
Ireland’s bad bank said the £1.3 billion sale to US investment fund Cerberus two years ago was “the best achievable result”.


Yes in a manner of speaking. You achieved the 'best result' given the process you followed. The result of a flawed process.

Quote:
“It is clear to us that, if Nama had retained the Eagle portfolio, there would be no investor interest in buying it today – or in the foreseeable future – at anything close to the £1.322 billion price that was actually achieved,” he said.


Is that as one portfolio ? And with all the whiff about the process. You might be damn right again ! No one would touch your process


Pure distraction tactics. The question is - Why one big loan sale ? Did you sell all your London loans in one go ? Did you sell all your Scottish? Might there have been a political reason for this monster sale of all NI Loans ? Is there a clause about 'political reasons' in the NAMA Act that allowed you to do this ?


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:11 pm 
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NWL makes the point that the portfolio was forecast to generate £1.65bn in cash before 2020; if correct then selling it doesn;t make much sense. I'm not sure which NWL this was though.

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:16 pm 
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I'm only on page 1 and 2 of the report and you see the amazing lack of arse covering by Daly and McDonough
http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/spec ... _Eagle.pdf

Point 8

Quote:
NAMA has stated that, although not recorded formally, it considered and rejected alternative disposal options including aggregation by location of the property collateral or by property type (e.g. retail, offices, development land), and separate sales of loans of individual debtor connections


There was literally no formal scenario analysis :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Quote:
NAMA has stated that the factors that influenced its decision to change its Northern
Ireland strategy were the emergence of the loan sale option, the political and crossjurisdictional
context
in which it held the Northern Ireland debtor assets, and its assessment that its relationship with the Northern Ireland debtors was deteriorating.


Where is that allowed in the NAMA act as a factor for the board in its decision making? oh I remember now. Nowhere

Fire the board
Fire the CEO
Fire Noonan


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:13 am 
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C&AG have said this morning they do not talk to the Media outside of Press releases.

So free rein for NAMA....Daly and a board member called Brian McEnerny on the radio this AM out fighting. Eoghain Murphy Junior TD on also (Noonan went into hospital this week and won't be back until Monday was the main point I took from his blather).
Mick Wallace is putting up the counter-arguments on a very bad phone line....me thinks he's in the 'brothers' vineyard outside Turin


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:35 am 
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Joined: Feb 7, 2014
Posts: 43
Mantissa wrote:
NWL makes the point that the portfolio was forecast to generate £1.65bn in cash before 2020; if correct then selling it doesn;t make much sense. I'm not sure which NWL this was though.


that's the SF shill NWL :x

all this talk about valuations and 190mln lost is a side show, the valuations were all subjective and the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding (willful or not) in the media today has been unsurprising - the process and criticism of it is the important thing to focus on


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:36 am 
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woodrow wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
NWL makes the point that the portfolio was forecast to generate £1.65bn in cash before 2020; if correct then selling it doesn;t make much sense. I'm not sure which NWL this was though.


that's the SF shill NWL :x

all this talk about valuations and 190mln lost is a side show, the valuations were all subjective and the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding (willful or not) in the media today has been unsurprising - the process and criticism of it is the important thing to focus on


Yeah I can't keep track -- the NWL who writes the blog seems to still occasionally put out good analytical stuff, while whoever's on the Twitter is most def a SF operative. Neither seems to be the "real" NWL though.

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2737
http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0915/816675-nama/

The government's aim now will be to keep Noonan's role and all talk of "political and cross jurisdictional context" that the CandAG referred to away from any inquiry. You can be sure that just like the DoJ and Shatter, Noonan doesn't document any decision making process (or anything at all)

It's all about the terms of reference baby :P


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 464
GameBlame wrote:
I'm only on page 1 and 2 of the report and you see the amazing lack of arse covering by Daly and McDonough
http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/spec ... _Eagle.pdf

Point 8

Quote:
NAMA has stated that, although not recorded formally, it considered and rejected alternative disposal options including aggregation by location of the property collateral or by property type (e.g. retail, offices, development land), and separate sales of loans of individual debtor connections


There was literally no formal scenario analysis :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Quote:
NAMA has stated that the factors that influenced its decision to change its Northern
Ireland strategy were the emergence of the loan sale option, the political and crossjurisdictional
context
in which it held the Northern Ireland debtor assets, and its assessment that its relationship with the Northern Ireland debtors was deteriorating.


Where is that allowed in the NAMA act as a factor for the board in its decision making? oh I remember now. Nowhere

Fire the board
Fire the CEO
Fire Noonan


What a load of codswallop.

The only NAMA-created possible problem that the report seems to have highlighted is a disagreement of £190m over the price achieved. On one hand we have NAMA who were active in the property market and received the price they felt achievable to get a curates egg of a portfolio off their hands, and with all the problems of the usual array of snakes in the grass hustlers in NI. On the other hand we have the theoretical price proposed by the C & AG.

Daly has made the important point that 8 parties were invited to bid and the fact that in the end 6 did not bid suggested that they didn't see any great value on offer. Why not let a couple of independent property specialists look at the 2 valuation figures and make a determination on the sale price in the context of the market at that time? We don't need a frigging enquiry in the Republic over this issue.

So on the sell side (NAMA) there is no suggestion of impropriety whereas on the buy side the NI police are looking into the shenanigans of various parties there trying to extract fees from the Yank buyers. Let's see what they come up with and let them pursue anyone guilty of any impropriety.

As Observer35 has pointed out the real meaty issue affecting the ROI, and causing probable loss to the Irish taxpayer, is the Section 110 structure of winning bidders for NAMA portfolios, which should be the subject of an inquiry, not the freaking sale price.

But no, we have the usual ragbag alliance of Wallace, with a personal financial interest and vendetta against Cerebus, and SF with their witness-coaching and local NI political interests, stirring shit on this non-issue. And the press here seemingly cant judge what is important and what is a big to-do about nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Feb 19, 2009
Posts: 2506
What an absolute racket NAMA is.
Totally predictable.

A sovereign (even one without its own currency) has one big advantage over a normal investor .... timeline.... an ability to sit and wait for decades and decades ....
But not in Ireland, bundle them up and sell, sell, sell. A completely hypocritical approach that is clearly founded on the idea of an efficient market pricing mechanism, despite the fact that NAMA exists because the market FAILED SPECTACULARLY as, oh, an efficient pricing mechanism.

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 Post subject: Re: NAMA, Wallace & the Robinsons
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Oct 11, 2012
Posts: 707
Daniel Plainview wrote:
What an absolute racket NAMA is.
Totally predictable.

A sovereign (even one without its own currency) has one big advantage over a normal investor .... timeline.... an ability to sit and wait for decades and decades ....
But not in Ireland, bundle them up and sell, sell, sell. A completely hypocritical approach that is clearly founded on the idea of an efficient market pricing mechanism, despite the fact that NAMA exists because the market FAILED SPECTACULARLY as, oh, an efficient pricing mechanism.


I think you're forgetting how precarious the State finances were when Nama was established, and how much pressure there was to refund Nama bonds to the State (or ECB). They couldn't just sit around waiting for the market to recover, but had to start covering their costs from day one, and then proceed according to a schedule toward full disposal. Plus, many (including many on here) thought that the market would take decades to recover, so again waiting indefinitely wasn't an option. (That's not to say Nama operated perfectly - I'm sure it didn't.)


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