Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Golden Circle » NAMAwatch (Pt. I)

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  [Go to page]   1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:20 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance
User avatar

Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 5210
Just 500m to go, 3 years ahead of the original 2020 schedule

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/04 ... nior-debt/

No mention of

a) what "profit" it expects to make over the 30.2bn [AHEM ignoring the loans par value was 74bn!]

b) are they closing off NAMA so in 2018? Or building houses or what? Future is very unclear

https://www.nama.ie/about-us/news/news- ... f-EUR952m/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:26 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 11764
Location: Somewhere up in the hills
Also ignores the €18 Billion in profit that they gifted to the vulture funds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:17 am 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Nov 20, 2014
Posts: 994
Meh so some of you are finally realizing that high property prices (and policies to further this aim) are a way for the government to indirectly tax all of us...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:44 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 2126
Coles2 wrote:
Also ignores the €18 Billion in profit that they gifted to the vulture funds.

Can you provide a source for that figure?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:31 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 17351
Also what is a "vulture fund"?

_________________
— Try, fail, understand, win. —


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:55 pm 
Offline
Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Nov 9, 2006
Posts: 308
Quote:
€18 Billion in profit that they gifted to the vulture funds


I bought shares a few years ago on the LSE and they have gone up in value. Do i now owe Gift Tax on the profit and to whom should I write the thank you note?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:37 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 11, 2012
Posts: 707
Also recall that many (including Morgan Kelly) thought that most of the NAMA bonds would never be repaid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:39 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance
User avatar

Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 5210
mortgageboy wrote:
Also recall that many (including Morgan Kelly) thought that most of the NAMA bonds would never be repaid.


Most assumed the bubble prices wouldn't come back so soon but hey, look at us now!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:56 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Sep 8, 2009
Posts: 509
Location: North Dublin
This is actually quite an achievement. I know the SBP published Jim Power's "report" on NAMA but to recover this kind of money on loan assets in a short space of time is good going. People forget that the "assets" NAMA bought were not the properties themselves but loans (basically fixed income claims on those assets). The problem with a loan (or a fixed nominal claim) is that it can go down in value if the real property assets it is secured on falls in value but it does not necessarily go up in value to the same extent if the value of the real property asset goes up. It is NOT the same thing as actually owning the property.

Power conveniently glossed over this (at least in the SBP article) by trying to compare NAMA's performance with commercial property itself and with equity indices, which always have greater upside than a pool of loans. Neither NAMA nor the banks who made the loans ever had access to the full upside of the underlying real assets (because the loans to the really good assets will get repaid at face or bought back while the bad loans will go to zero). Sure they bought at 50pc discount to face value, but the shitty lending and shitty documentation impaired a huge amount of value in many cases.

NAMA was originally structured to hold the development loans of the Irish banking system at a time when it was still believed the State could avoid nationalizing the banks themselves and avoid the IMF. The idea was to isolate what was thought to be the worst part of the banking system and save the rest (and FF).

In the end the banks were rotten in a whole load of other ways and FF could not be saved from 2011. However, the crew we elected in their place chose to behave and sell a story about a certain kind of recovery which required amnesia, and hanging around to recover "long term economic value" (a concept many Pinsters were pretty sniffy about but whose correctness is actually proven by the vulture funds' success) was not part of that story. So FG moved the goalposts for NAMA and set objectives that were far more short term in nature. NAMA therefore had to sell earlier than originally envisioned to realise cash. While they might be criticised for selling good stuff early, its worth remembering that selling the UK stuff for example, in 2013 - 2015 avoided Brexit (a huge number of loans were in sterling or secured on sterling assets). And they had limited rights to the upside in any event.

The electorate only partly bought FG's story, leading to the comic opera government we currently have. But in fairness to the 200-400 folks in NAMA, they mostly obeyed the diktats of the elected masters and remarkably few appear to have been suborned so far. The developers who want to bitch now were all free to exit NAMA as soon as they repaid their loans. Any time they paid back in full, they were free to go and do as they pleased. Yes, having a lender run your strategy is suboptimal. Don't borrow so much next time. It's a lesson lots of business people learn, not just developers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: NAMA has now repaid 29.7bn of the 30.2bn it borrowed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:42 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 12, 2012
Posts: 2183
Pin consensus c 2010 was that Nama was not selling cheaply enough.......


Top
 Profile  
 



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  [Go to page]   1, 2  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Golden Circle » NAMAwatch (Pt. I)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Follow, Retweet @dailypinster



Pyramid Built, Is Better Built! - Latest Property Discussions www.thepropertypin.com