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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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I remember being embarrassed by recommending that a recently unemployed friend of mine get a job with my current employer in another department and then discovering the wage they paid. You wouldn't have kept a Budgie in birdseed on what they were paying.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:32 pm 
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BTW it's worth re-reading the EC's original request for information from the State (which I posted to page 21 of this thread), which sets out all the claims in detail. Long but worth a read.

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_a ... 4_87_2.pdf

Quote:
In 1991, a basis for determining Apple Computer Accessories Ltd.’s (subsequently ASI) Irish branch net profit was proposed by Apple and agreed by Irish Revenue. According to that ruling, the net profit attributable to the ASI branch would be calculated as 12.5% of all branch operating costs, excluding material for resale.


In other words, Revenue agreed that they would tax ASI based on their local costs, not their profits.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:42 pm 
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Quick question:
If it takes Ireland/Apple about 5 years to appeal today's decision, and the money sits in an Irish controlled account until then... can Ireland just roll-over that 13Bn at 2% p.a. and pick up 250M a year while this plays out?
It'd be 1.25Bn minimum over 5 years!


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:10 pm 
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FTBer wrote:
Quick question:
If it takes Ireland/Apple about 5 years to appeal today's decision, and the money sits in an Irish controlled account until then... can Ireland just roll-over that 13Bn at 2% p.a. and pick up 250M a year while this plays out?
It'd be 1.25Bn minimum over 5 years!


Interest would accrue to the eventual winner I would imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:29 pm 
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What about at negative rates?!

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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Apple can keep it in one of their apple pay digital wallets...shure it is better than a bank.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:10 am 
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It looks like FG want to appeal against raising 13 billion (plus interest) that the once eternally wise EC has told them....if they thought water charges were a tough sell on the doorsteps! 1% effective tax rate after telling everyone they were fighting to defend 12.5% !

They need their heads examined. Marching to electoral doom on the hundredth anniversary of the Somme.

The only grace is that FF and Labour are rowing in. Yes f**king Labour want to not collect corporation tax

Noonan is trying to steamroll a quick cabinet decision. If IA are smart they'll delay ask for a Dail debate, and start asking whether this whole debacle is an example of Regulatory Capture, which to me it is.

Another thing to mention - The Irish Taxation system has been stuck in a sick malaise for at least the last 20 years that the Big 4 firms write/suggest huge swathes of the Finance Act each year.


Edit - remembering the concerted briefing campaign about how inept Shane Ross was on Brazilian thing it will be interesting to see whether Noonan get x thousand a lashing from INM and the IT for a thousand times bigger f**k up on his watch


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:35 am 
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Joined: Jun 13, 2008
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I'm not the biggest fan of Noonan but I don't see how he is responsible for this. Apple isn't the first corporations that's been called out for tax avoidance recently , hopefully Ireand can negotiate the bill down. Yes it is slightly perverse but we have benefited greatly from investment from multinationals and need to protect this.

All that being said things are changing and Ireland and these global multinationals are going to have to get with the program now.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:33 am 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Jun 26, 2012
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Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
taipeir wrote:
I'm not the biggest fan of Noonan but I don't see how he is responsible for this. Apple isn't the first corporations that's been called out for tax avoidance recently , hopefully Ireand can negotiate the bill down. Yes it is slightly perverse but we have benefited greatly from investment from multinationals and need to protect this.

All that being said things are changing and Ireland and these global multinationals are going to have to get with the program now.

DoF responsible and previous MoFs perhaps more than noonan. If you're going to set up competitive tax, you mess up when you then wander into state aid rules. This could have been done and kept within tax domain and the case couldn't have been brought. However, folk messed up.

It is, however, perverse that anyone would now be saying 'I hope the bill gets reduced'. Whether the bill is EUR 1 or eur11bn if the judgement stands then we can't do this sweetheart favouritism going forward. Nothing in this that stops competitive tax rates. Just can't play favourites.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:57 am 
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Too Big to Fail
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Joined: Mar 7, 2012
Posts: 3357
Location: Lovely Leitrim
I always laugh when ministers are questioned about EU investigations into Government activities and they usually respond with bluster and dismiss the question out of hand. Here's one for posterity

Noonan confident Apple Tax offering does not breach rules

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/econ ... -1.1838848

Plenty more to be found around Irish Water borrowing off balance sheet, Suspension of water charges and Minimum alcohol pricing. For all the EU's faults I love them for giving our parish pump corporate whore politicians a kicking every now and then.

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