Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank » IMF Watch (IRL)

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 647 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:28 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5579
I remember being embarrassed by recommending that a recently unemployed friend of mine get a job with my current employer in another department and then discovering the wage they paid. You wouldn't have kept a Budgie in birdseed on what they were paying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:32 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 17336
Location: To the right of the decimal place
BTW it's worth re-reading the EC's original request for information from the State (which I posted to page 21 of this thread), which sets out all the claims in detail. Long but worth a read.

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_a ... 4_87_2.pdf

Quote:
In 1991, a basis for determining Apple Computer Accessories Ltd.’s (subsequently ASI) Irish branch net profit was proposed by Apple and agreed by Irish Revenue. According to that ruling, the net profit attributable to the ASI branch would be calculated as 12.5% of all branch operating costs, excluding material for resale.


In other words, Revenue agreed that they would tax ASI based on their local costs, not their profits.

_________________
— Try, fail, understand, win. —


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:42 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 12, 2014
Posts: 613
Location: Dublin
Quick question:
If it takes Ireland/Apple about 5 years to appeal today's decision, and the money sits in an Irish controlled account until then... can Ireland just roll-over that 13Bn at 2% p.a. and pick up 250M a year while this plays out?
It'd be 1.25Bn minimum over 5 years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:10 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 17336
Location: To the right of the decimal place
FTBer wrote:
Quick question:
If it takes Ireland/Apple about 5 years to appeal today's decision, and the money sits in an Irish controlled account until then... can Ireland just roll-over that 13Bn at 2% p.a. and pick up 250M a year while this plays out?
It'd be 1.25Bn minimum over 5 years!


Interest would accrue to the eventual winner I would imagine.

_________________
— Try, fail, understand, win. —


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:29 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jan 2, 2008
Posts: 1585
What about at negative rates?!

_________________
“Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:46 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5579
Apple can keep it in one of their apple pay digital wallets...shure it is better than a bank.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:10 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2575
It looks like FG want to appeal against raising 13 billion (plus interest) that the once eternally wise EC has told them....if they thought water charges were a tough sell on the doorsteps! 1% effective tax rate after telling everyone they were fighting to defend 12.5% !

They need their heads examined. Marching to electoral doom on the hundredth anniversary of the Somme.

The only grace is that FF and Labour are rowing in. Yes f**king Labour want to not collect corporation tax

Noonan is trying to steamroll a quick cabinet decision. If IA are smart they'll delay ask for a Dail debate, and start asking whether this whole debacle is an example of Regulatory Capture, which to me it is.

Another thing to mention - The Irish Taxation system has been stuck in a sick malaise for at least the last 20 years that the Big 4 firms write/suggest huge swathes of the Finance Act each year.


Edit - remembering the concerted briefing campaign about how inept Shane Ross was on Brazilian thing it will be interesting to see whether Noonan get x thousand a lashing from INM and the IT for a thousand times bigger f**k up on his watch


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:35 am 
Offline
Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Posts: 760
I'm not the biggest fan of Noonan but I don't see how he is responsible for this. Apple isn't the first corporations that's been called out for tax avoidance recently , hopefully Ireand can negotiate the bill down. Yes it is slightly perverse but we have benefited greatly from investment from multinationals and need to protect this.

All that being said things are changing and Ireland and these global multinationals are going to have to get with the program now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:33 am 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 3024
Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
taipeir wrote:
I'm not the biggest fan of Noonan but I don't see how he is responsible for this. Apple isn't the first corporations that's been called out for tax avoidance recently , hopefully Ireand can negotiate the bill down. Yes it is slightly perverse but we have benefited greatly from investment from multinationals and need to protect this.

All that being said things are changing and Ireland and these global multinationals are going to have to get with the program now.

DoF responsible and previous MoFs perhaps more than noonan. If you're going to set up competitive tax, you mess up when you then wander into state aid rules. This could have been done and kept within tax domain and the case couldn't have been brought. However, folk messed up.

It is, however, perverse that anyone would now be saying 'I hope the bill gets reduced'. Whether the bill is EUR 1 or eur11bn if the judgement stands then we can't do this sweetheart favouritism going forward. Nothing in this that stops competitive tax rates. Just can't play favourites.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:57 am 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: Mar 7, 2012
Posts: 3315
Location: Lovely Leitrim
I always laugh when ministers are questioned about EU investigations into Government activities and they usually respond with bluster and dismiss the question out of hand. Here's one for posterity

Noonan confident Apple Tax offering does not breach rules

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/econ ... -1.1838848

Plenty more to be found around Irish Water borrowing off balance sheet, Suspension of water charges and Minimum alcohol pricing. For all the EU's faults I love them for giving our parish pump corporate whore politicians a kicking every now and then.

_________________
If Monday was a browser it'd be IE.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:33 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Apr 1, 2010
Posts: 10546
Luan wrote:
dipole wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
M$, FB and the others are different only in that they didn't have the special tax exemption that Apple did, but it doesn't mean they paid any tax here ; many of them used the double Irish until 2014 when it was abolished. I remember when every Windows 95 license in EMEA was "sold from Ireland".

and I remember duplicating the W.95 floppy diskettes as a temp worker for a contractor in Sandyford in the times before minimum wage on a three shift cycle earning not much more than dole. People keep saying they deliver jobs but the jobs these companies deliver are mostly low paying; if they were high paying then the balance of taxes in the national accounts would look dramatically different.

Was the contractor Irish or foreign owned?

It was almost certainly BG Turnkey who Microsoft farmed out their Sandyford documentation and media manufacturing to in the early 90s. BG Turnkey were originally Irish, with their HQ next door to Apple in Hollyhill, Cork, until they themselves were taken over by an American corporate in 1995. In 2006 a large chunk of their manufacturing was moved to the Czech Republic. I guess BG were an MNC in the strict sense of the word, but their business was crumbs from the table of other MNCs and their aggressive cost controls reflected that.

A mate of mine worked on the production line for Microsoft when they manufactured their own media and docs in Sandyford. He got his foot in the door of a desk job just before BG Turnkey came in, and is still there 25 years on with mainly on-the-job experience/qualifications. I would guess he earns 80-90k which I would consider not bad.

_________________
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" – Niels Bohr


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:43 am 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 3024
Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
ps200306 wrote:
It was almost certainly BG Turnkey who Microsoft farmed out their Sandyford documentation and media manufacturing to in the early 90s.

Yes! that's a name from the past! I remember it now (the turnkey bit at least) but I'd never have recalled it.

Had a friend working there as a summer job or something years back (maybe 1995 ish). Didn't like it much. It struck me at the time even as an example of how low-tech and crappy some "high tech MNC" jobs were and also looked like a bit of a cover-story for tax-avoidance or something (much like the pool-hall I used to play in always seemed too quiet (and too cheap) to be a real business and I always assumed it was money laundering... and years later it was in the news and turned out to be location of a bunch of corrupt property/development dealing).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:12 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Dec 28, 2006
Posts: 5579
Still can't remember the company name. They operated out of a derelict looking but otherwise non-descript commercial building on one of the avenues in Sandyford.


Last edited by dipole on Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:12 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail
User avatar

Joined: Mar 7, 2012
Posts: 3315
Location: Lovely Leitrim
Independent Alliance refuses to back FG plan to appeal Apple ruling

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2774281

_________________
If Monday was a browser it'd be IE.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Ireland's corporation tax survive?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:46 pm 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 4666
NegativeEquity wrote:
Independent Alliance refuses to back FG plan to appeal Apple ruling

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2774281


Principled, or just lining up to lobby for shares of the €13B for their constituencies? :nin

_________________
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.


Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
Book I, Chapter X, Part II,


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 647 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Central Bank » IMF Watch (IRL)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Click for Latest Posts LATEST POSTS Click for Forum List FORUMS

Click for Latest PostsFollow, Retweet @dailypinster

- Pyramid Built, Is Better Built!