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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:14 pm 
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yoganmahew wrote:
The constitutional difficulty is that it would render NAMA bankrupt and therefore the state...


... the carcass was rendered some years ago and is now left hanging. You can't hide the stale rotten putrid smell forever! :sick:

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Open Window wrote:
yoganmahew wrote:
The constitutional difficulty is that it would render NAMA bankrupt and therefore the state...


... the carcass was rendered some years ago and is now left hanging. You can't hide the stale rotten putrid smell forever! :sick:

Best thing to do is replace it with a worse smell...

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:23 am 
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Ultimately upward only rent reviews will only do damage to the economy. It is the same principle as bank resolution and personal insolvency. The monied classes pay. This is as it must me. Thankfully we have a socialist party in power to make sure of it...

The only positive for impecunious tenants in our outdated uncompetitive laws and legal system is that most landlords can't afford to go to the high court!


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:56 am 
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Part of me thinks that all that matters is jobs and anything that gets or keeps people off the dole is deciding factor.

On the other hand marking to market on rents on long leases reminds me of all that whining from homeowners who want their mortgage written down to what the house is worth now.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:03 pm 
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The quid pro quo of the UORR was the tenant's automatic right of renewal.

If a shop owner spends his working life building up a good retail business the goodwill associated with the business should remain the shop owners and not revert to the landlord on expiry of the lease.

This automatic renewal right is not a feature in shorter dated European leases.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:15 pm 
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Landlord wrote:
The quid pro quo of the UORR was the tenant's automatic right of renewal.

If a shop owner spends his working life building up a good retail business the goodwill associated with the business should remain the shop owners and not revert to the landlord on expiry of the lease.

This automatic renewal right is not a feature in shorter dated European leases.

I don't think you're right about that.

Here's what a quick search has to say about commercial leases in France

Quote:
A standard 9-year term for French Commercial Leases is fixed by statute.
There are breakpoints at the end of each three-year period (3-6-9), but only in favour of the tenant.
There is a statutory right of renewal for the sitting tenant.
The method and timing of rental index linkage is provided for by law.
The breakdown of liability for building and management charges, i.e. over and above the rental amount, may be settled contractually between the parties.
The termination of the lease is subject to highly constraining procedural requirements, which, if not complied with, tend to penalise the landlord.
Compensation is nevertheless payable to the tenant by the landlord at the end of the term of the lease.


:?


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:39 pm 
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yoganmahew wrote:
The constitutional difficulty is that it would render NAMA bankrupt and therefore the state...


It would be much worse than that.

One of the biggest flies in the ointment when this was announced was that there was a huge chunk of pension funds, local & foreign, invested in Irish commercial property, precisely because of UORR. The funds loved the practically riskless nature of the investment, & this in turn supported Irish commercial valuations.

If this money was pulled out, the flight of foreign money would be astronomical :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:55 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:
yoganmahew wrote:
The constitutional difficulty is that it would render NAMA bankrupt and therefore the state...


It would be much worse than that.

One of the biggest flies in the ointment when this was announced was that there was a huge chunk of pension funds, local & foreign, invested in Irish commercial property, precisely because of UORR. The funds loved the practically riskless nature of the investment, & this in turn supported Irish commercial valuations.

If this money was pulled out, the flight of foreign money would be astronomical :!:

Irish commercial property - risk free......

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:39 pm 
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It's worth saying that Retail Excellence Ireland has issued a statement which claims that the UORR legislation has not been shelved (yet).

http://www.retailexcellence.ie/index.php/news/

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Confirmed in the Budget. UORR legislation is dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Is there anything to prevent new leases avoiding an UORR cause ?


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:01 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
Is there anything to prevent new leases avoiding an UORR cause ?



I believe such clauses are now outright illegal, so yes.


Ed: Hope I have all my double negatives right there!


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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:38 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
Is there anything to prevent new leases avoiding an UORR cause ?


Negotiation? A refusal by all to accept it, i.e. "Leave it at the door chaps."

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:13 am 
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a reality check might force a landlord to renegotiate. id say theres plenty commercial/retail space available these days

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 Post subject: Re: Just revealed on NAMA wine lake - UORR legislation is de
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:28 am 
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FT - Ireland scraps move on upward-only rent reviews

Quote:
The U-turn follows concerns expressed by the National Asset Management Agency – the “bad bank” set up to take over Irish banks’ toxic property loans – that removing the clauses could cost it up to €2bn.
How much is it going to cost our economy to leave in these clauses?

Quote:
Upward-only rent reviews were a feature of the Celtic Tiger economy, which saw property prices rise faster than in any other EU state.
So, we're going to keep them as a feature of the Celtic Guinea Pig economy too?

Quote:
Retailers say the sky-high rents agreed during Ireland’s economic boom are causing many of them to go out of business amid a three-year recession in the domestic sector.
Quote:
Landlords and Nama furiously lobbied against the government’s proposals to pass legislation that would have enabled tenants to extricate themselves from upward-only rental leases.
What's that you say? - 'LOBBY'?

Quote:
Retail Excellence Ireland, a lobby retail group, said the government had shown “utter contempt” for retailers by abandoning the proposed reforms. “The retail industry has lost 50,000 jobs in the past four years. The continuance of upward-only rent reviews will greatly increase this number,” it said in a statement.


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