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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:46 am 
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Negative Covenant wrote:
People who subscribe to the narrative of the general demonisation of unions need to study their history. The little people get no fair play until they band together and demand it with credible threats of retribution.


I'd like to highlight this point too.
Only I agree with it.
Partially.

The problem most people have with unions is not their aims or actions, its that they (largely) fall back on guaranteed employment clauses as leverage. This is why they are so weak in the private sector; they dont have that fallback.

Granted that permission was given by government, but the tacit agreement was that the Unions would provide a stable work force for the people. A lifelong payment of 3/4 of the private sector equivalent wage and pension and job security should have been enough but it seems the movement, routed from private industry in the 1970s and 80s, is determined to hang itself 'to teach us all a lesson'.

Further I'd say the existence of a Union movement in and of itself demonstrates the failure of government to provide for its citizens.
(Too many business lobbyists, the same)

In summary, the union movement has overreached itself and I believe we are seeing its death throes.
Within 10 years it will be a shadow of itself by the IMFs hand or the electorate.

In my more vivid flights of fantasy I often imagine this face-off to be engineered to achieve this aim and I think it a huge disservice to all those who require communal assistance in the workplace. But they only have themselves to blame.

This is how it looks to an outsider, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:28 am 
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There's some truth to that, the very man. Unions are essential in places where the government does not provide adequate protection for a workforce; think many third world countries, or even those US states with "at will" employment. However, that has not been the case in Ireland for a long time. It is extremely difficult to get rid of someone in Ireland even in the private sector, and I would say that Ireland provides a huge level of protection to employees already through legislation.

Unions here only serve to restrict work practices and reduce efficiency, while artificially inflating wages for their members. And of course, they provide huge benefits for the union employees as well as perks for union reps, at the expense of both their members and the taxpayer. They are large organisations in their own right, with all the bloat that this entails.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Union membership in the multinational tech sector is non-existent and yet the unions rarely if ever mention this fact. Certainly, I've never heard of any union attempting a major recruitment drive in this area. These are usually considered good jobs too.

I guess for unions to start talking about it, would be to confront their own irrelevancy ...

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:54 pm 
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OK this is anecdotal but take from it what you want.

A union member colleague mentioned to me a couple of months back that once this years budget goes through, it if does, that there would be tension and he predicted that those who were not union members (such as myself) better be by then in order not to be blamed for the tensions etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:57 pm 
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wii4miinow wrote:
A union member colleague mentioned to me a couple of months back that once this years budget goes through, it if does, that there would be tension and he predicted that those who were not union members (such as myself) better be by then in order not to be blamed for the tensions etc.


If you're a public sector worker I heard the same spiel during the public sector strikes in 2009 when I worked in the public sector.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:11 pm 
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wii4miinow wrote:
OK this is anecdotal but take from it what you want.

A union member colleague mentioned to me a couple of months back that once this years budget goes through, it if does, that there would be tension and he predicted that those who were not union members (such as myself) better be by then in order not to be blamed for the tensions etc.


On the other hand, my wife works in the health service and she says an increasing number of people she works with are dropping out of the union since:

1) The dues may be small but they're not insignificant at a time when money is tight for a lot of people; and
2) Her colleagues have seen what they feel are significant cuts in income (OT) and changes to work practices, and they feel the union threw them under a bus as a bargaining chip; and
3) If it comes to a strike, the unions have no strike funds, so they don't want to go on strike and not get paid.

In other words, at the time when a well-run union could be the most useful to her colleagues, they are abandoning it due to dissatisfaction with how it operates.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:36 pm 
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room305 wrote:
Union membership in the multinational tech sector is non-existent and yet the unions rarely if ever mention this fact. Certainly, I've never heard of any union attempting a major recruitment drive in this area. These are usually considered good jobs too.

I guess for unions to start talking about it, would be to confront their own irrelevancy ...

That's precisely why Jack O'Connor and David Begg et al, are constantly calling for large-scale, publicly-funded, infrastructural projects - whereby they can control the building and craft trades, jacking up the costs and increasing their membership and funds. The Unions truly hate the IT and Pharma sectors! (Put it another way - like most beardy lefties, they hate anyone getting on in life and being rewarded through their own ingenuity, intelligence, talent, education or enterprise.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:52 am 
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evilal wrote:
3) If it comes to a strike, the unions have no strike funds, so they don't want to go on strike and not get paid.


Weirdly little known fact. When you go on strike, the union doesn't pay your wage. They pay you a "living wage" (and not the kind of wage Jack O'Connor lives on). I think it is the same as the dole.

I imagine many workers could not take more than a week or two of that without beginning to default on commitments. Usually the workers who are older and nearer retirement, are more able to tolerate this scenario due to having lower commitments (kids grown up, mortgage paid off etc.).

Hence, the friction between older and younger workers during industrial disputes. The unions are generally run for the benefit of the older workers.

Also, unions mismanaging their financial affairs, being run by a bunch of overpaid divas and feeling free to lecture the government on financial matters. Hilarious. Or sad. I'm not sure which.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:42 pm 
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The unions should start representing low paid call centre workers in the multinationals, instead of the overpaid fat cats in the public sector, with their free-money pensions and tax-free lump sums.

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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:40 am 
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InflationIsTheft wrote:
The unions should start representing low paid call centre workers in the multinationals, instead of the overpaid fat cats in the public sector, with their free-money pensions and tax-free lump sums.


They've been trying to break into that market for years with very little to show for it, union dues x number of people = profit.


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 Post subject: Re: Ictu may end 'pointless' troika meetings
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:02 pm 
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BoyRacer wrote:
InflationIsTheft wrote:
The unions should start representing low paid call centre workers in the multinationals, instead of the overpaid fat cats in the public sector, with their free-money pensions and tax-free lump sums.


They've been trying to break into that market for years with very little to show for it, union dues x number of people = profit.

I used to work for a large MNC (pharma-brand new site) and the general manager of the site took the time to inform us that they would refuse to recognise any union as they "preferred to deal with their employees directly". Anybody trying to make moves towards a union there would have been signing their employment death warrant and by jesus if ever a site needed a union, this is the one...

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