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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:56 pm 
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A serious question :

What if I place a very large deposit in a Paddy Power account (say over 100k), obviously I'm not going to get any interest on the money, but would the cash be safe in the event of the Gov't making a call on bank deposits ?

I presume it would but I'd like to tease it out on here. Remember a bank deposit will only return about 1.1% net, currently. I think the money is safer in PP provided I don't use it for indiscriminate gambling. Also, I can make withdrawals via PP shops whenever I require cash and they don't charge a fee for the process. :idea: .

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:28 pm 
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wawwa wrote:
A serious question :

What if I place a very large deposit in a Paddy Power account (say over 100k), obviously I'm not going to get any interest on the money, but would the cash be safe in the event of the Gov't making a call on bank deposits ?

I presume it would but I'd like to tease it out on here. Remember a bank deposit will only return about 1.1% net, currently. I think the money is safer in PP provided I don't use it for indiscriminate gambling. Also, I can make withdrawals via PP shops whenever I require cash and they don't charge a fee for the process. :idea: .


Just like those people who had all that safe money in Full Tilt Poker?

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Rimbaud wrote:
Good chance property/share prices will rebound over the medium term


[citation needed]

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:36 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Rimbaud wrote:
Looks like the safest place for it is in property or big pharma shares and to think I used to laugh at my Grandfather and his mistrust/dislike of banks.

Surely the risk of (say) a 20% haircut on state-guaranteed savings (which would cause a huge political shitstorm) is lower than the risk of losing 20% on property or pharma stocks (which would result in no one batting an eyelid)?

Also, I'm not sure I'd want to be holding property in a country where there are savings haircuts and capital controls. How is Cypriot real estate doing?

That's my take on it. I have a giant wedge in Irish banks. If they grab 10% of it I'll still be ahead, because I did the sensible thing and locked in high rates last year. At 20% I'll be taking a loss, but less than what I would have risked with any other approach. I'd definitely prefer a raid to creeping inflation which could completely kill me over time. Obviously my preferred option would be for the thieving f*ckers to keep their grubby paws off it altogether. :D

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:50 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
wawwa wrote:
A serious question :

What if I place a very large deposit in a Paddy Power account (say over 100k), obviously I'm not going to get any interest on the money, but would the cash be safe in the event of the Gov't making a call on bank deposits ?

I presume it would but I'd like to tease it out on here. Remember a bank deposit will only return about 1.1% net, currently. I think the money is safer in PP provided I don't use it for indiscriminate gambling. Also, I can make withdrawals via PP shops whenever I require cash and they don't charge a fee for the process. :idea: .


Just like those people who had all that safe money in Full Tilt Poker?



I think PP is a much safer bet than full tilt poker for my purposes. Also, when I logged back in just now I got an ad for "Safety Deposit Boxes" somewhere in Dublin (still prefer PP).

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:24 am 
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Surely you'd be better with a TD Waterhouse account if you want to give your money to an unguarateed institution?

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:35 am 
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If you put it in the governments 'Solidarity' bonds - would they really dare to take it? Are they really that stupid? Ok - I know.

The other possibilitY I have thought of is a stock-broking account - how would that be treated?

EDIT: and another thought - bank drafts - (or cash) in a safe deposit box These guys cost €300 per year - http://merrionvaults.ie/prices/


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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:22 am 
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This is the same piece I linked to last month
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61044&hilit=bailout&start=27

There's loads of offshore options for your money -- HSBC Premier is excellent. All you need is to find one outside the Eurozone.

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:23 am 
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metalmike wrote:
If you put it in the governments 'Solidarity' bonds - would they really dare to take it? Are they really that stupid? Ok - I know.



No - not if they're sovereign debt - which presumably they are. They won't default on them until long after they haircut deposit holders.

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Profits = Investment – Household Savings – Government Savings – Foreign Savings + Dividends

(i.e. company profits are directly fed, in part, by government deficits)

BANKS DON'T LEND RESERVES
As confirmed by the Bank of England


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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:44 am 
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Daniel Plainview wrote:
metalmike wrote:
If you put it in the governments 'Solidarity' bonds - would they really dare to take it? Are they really that stupid? Ok - I know.



No - not if they're sovereign debt - which presumably they are. They won't default on them until long after they haircut deposit holders.

That makes it sound like a deposit haircut is a tax on being stupid enough to give money to a risky institution. If that's the case, will such a haircut only apply to deposits with particular institutions that get into trouble, rather than a grab from all deposits in all banks trading in Ireland?

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:55 am 
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Daniel Plainview wrote:
metalmike wrote:
If you put it in the governments 'Solidarity' bonds - would they really dare to take it? Are they really that stupid? Ok - I know.


No - not if they're sovereign debt - which presumably they are. They won't default on them until long after they haircut deposit holders.

Deposit holders under 100k? If the bonds* are held by Irish residents then they can be haircut one way or another, e.g. a levy, without disturbing foreign bondholders.

I reckon they're in the same safety-ballpark as (say) BOI deposits under 100k.

* which they're not AFAIK since they're not tradeable and don't pay a coupon, but I defer to your expertise on that

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:12 pm 
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I recall a couple of years ago some people in UK were reported as pre paying and overpaying tax to HMRC and collecting interest on it
not sure what the interest rate is in Ireland


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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Tyler wrote:
I recall a couple of years ago some people in UK were reported as pre paying and overpaying tax to HMRC and collecting interest on it
not sure what the interest rate is in Ireland


www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/...tax. ... -11.pdf?...‎

If that doesn't work, try this 2nd one
https://www.google.ie/#q=revenue%20overpaid%20tax

Quote:
0.0161% for any day or part of a day commencing on or after 01/09/2002


I make that 5.8765% per annum


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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:32 pm 
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^^ I don't think so.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/ ... l#section4

"Revenue may pay interest on refunds of VAT to a claimant in two circumstances i.e. where there is a mistaken assumption in the operation of the tax made by Revenue or where there is a delay of more than 93 days in processing a fully completed claim. Simple interest is calculated from the date on which the amount becomes payable and is chargeable at a rate of 0.011% per day, or part of a day, during which the amount remains unpaid. Interest will not be paid where it amounts to less than €10 or where any interest is paid due to the provisions of other legislation."

You won't earn interest just by chucking loads of money at them.

Besides which, throwing money at the State because you don't trust them to honour a guarantee is a bit bonkers.

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Last edited by Eschatologist on Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: IMF calls for a tax on household savings
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:34 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
That makes it sound like a deposit haircut is a tax on being stupid enough to give money to a risky institution.


Hmm...a sort of, because-we've-all-been-f**kwits tax ?

Call it the Universal Stupidity Charge or USC....er...hey! hang on...

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