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 Post subject: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Of Systemic Importance

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Location: Ahernistan
Surprised there isn't a thread here yet on this decision !

Quote:
An Bord Pleanála has refused planning permission for the proposed National Children’s Hospital on the campus of the Mater hospital in Dublin.

In a decision released today the board said the proposed development would “constitute overdevelopment” of the Mater site and would “be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area”.

It said: “The proposed Children’s Hospital of Ireland, by its nature, requires a substantial floor area, in excess of 100,000 square metres, to accommodate the operational needs of the hospital.

“However, the footprint afforded to the proposed development has resulted in a proposal for a very significant building in terms of bulk and height, including a 164m long ward block, rising to 74m above ground.

“It is considered that the proposed development, by reason of its height, scale, form and mass, located on this elevated site, would result in a dominant, visually incongruous structure and would have a profound negative impact on the appearance and visual amenity of the city skyline.”

The board said the development would contravene the Dublin City Development Plan (2011-2017) that seeks to protect the city’s skyline and would adversely affect the “existing scale and character of the historic city and the established character of the local area”. The plan was rejected by three to one.

....


I don't know where to even start with the roll of shame on this situation.

Bertie for putting the fucking thing in the worst possible location, or for ABP for ignoring the consequences of the rejection, or the objectors for continuing the longstanding 'me feinism' of Ireland....

All I know is that it's Children that will suffer because of the utter cluster fuck that this country continues to be ! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Location: London, innit
I thought the site was a disaster too; plonk it out on the M50 beside some empty apartments for the parents?

I heard that Prof John Crown on the wireless; he might know his stuff about cancer but what an difficult man/voice to listen to. Stereotypical private school southside consultant with God complex and a voice to go with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Apr 2, 2009
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can we pls now bring Mary Harney and Bertie out and shoot them in the back of the head ?


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Oct 10, 2010
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robdel wrote:
can we pls now bring Mary Harney and Bertie out and shoot them in the back of the head ?

How long would they be sitting on a trolley in A&E if they were admitted for this?


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:13 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 29, 2009
Posts: 1543
Location: South County Dublin
Can we now after this debacle (to follow all the other debacles) create some sort of adult infrastructure planning process in this country? One that minimises the passive-aggressive lobbying, the political meddling, the capture by private interests etc. One that joins rail lines, builds within reasonable timeframes and cost, one that doesn't build empty tunnels or motorways that require ongoing public subvention or conference centres which require, how much?, of a subsidy per delegate.


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:15 pm 
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I never understood the logic with locating a major specialist hospital in the city centre.


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Location: London, innit
is Noel Smyth still offering to build it elsewhere?

http://www.cisireland.com/NewsItem.aspx?NewsId=436

http://www.independent.ie/health/tycoon ... 59528.html


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Too Big to Fail
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Oh, dear GOD!

Absofuckinglutely ridiculous :evil:

I regretfully accepted the independent report last year though that recommended the site, even though I never thought it should have been built there, with the one advantage that it might be built quicker.

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The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by'. The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what?
Sophie Scholl


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:38 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
I never understood the logic with locating a major specialist hospital in the city centre.


It's a 'town' mentality: everything comes in and out of town through the main street. Dublin probably once did function like that, and it still does today despite being metropolis. It's the same mentality that had artics going through the city centre up until recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Elka wrote:
mr_anderson wrote:
I never understood the logic with locating a major specialist hospital in the city centre.


It's a 'town' mentality: everything comes in and out of town through the main street. Dublin probably once did function like that, and it still does today despite being metropolis. It's the same mentality that had artics going through the city centre up until recently.


And also because in Ireland, the center of the city is the only place served by public transport. So for families coming up from the country on the train, would be fecked trying to get out to Lucan or where ever, if the arrived into Heuston.

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"Mr Kelly said Ireland’s “reputational capital” had been damaged by “chancers” such as ex-Anglo Irish Bank chairman Seán FitzPatrick, who had been abetted by “buffoons” such as former financial regulator Patrick Neary, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan and the Taoiseach." - Irish Times 13th Jan 2009

"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." (Catherine Aird)


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:13 pm 
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fishfoodie wrote:
Elka wrote:
mr_anderson wrote:
I never understood the logic with locating a major specialist hospital in the city centre.


It's a 'town' mentality: everything comes in and out of town through the main street. Dublin probably once did function like that, and it still does today despite being metropolis. It's the same mentality that had artics going through the city centre up until recently.


And also because in Ireland, the center of the city is the only place served by public transport. So for families coming up from the country on the train, would be fecked trying to get out to Lucan or where ever, if the arrived into Heuston.


And only the centre is serviced because of the 'town' mentality... QED.

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Reality is nothing but a collective hunch. - Lily Tomlin


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Bertie's vanity projects have cost Ireland dearly.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current ... -0020838-1


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Pretty much every consultant and specialist involved in paediatric medicine in Ireland came out against the decision to locate it on the Mater. International studies and again, the opinions of paediatricians in Ireland was that co-location with an adult teaching hospital was of little benefit to a national children's hospital. Of far more importance was a Maternity Hospital, which the Mater lacked and was to be built alongside the the new NCH.


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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:53 pm 
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I applaud this decision, ABP are recently showing a huge amount of sense. Far better to greenfield out by Saggart ( LUAS, M50 )

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 Post subject: Re: Childrens Hospital Refused Planning
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 898
This has nothing to do with medical decisions, traffic or any sort of logic, it's to do with preserving Dublin's "skyline".

Dublin (or any Irish city really) does not really have a skyline to protect, there's a reason that the traditional skyline picture of Dublin is the Poolbeg chimneys, or maybe now the National Convention Center.

In fairness the ABP were doing their job - not allowing changes to a bland skyline, but this shouldn't have been their job to do. Those clowns out at the DAA can pretty much build any old rubbish they want without involving the ABP, why the hell should something as fundamental as a children's hospital be held up by 3 ABP staffers on purely aesthetic, chin stroking reasons.

Also I'm slightly amused that Dublin people seem to think it's a bigger deal to travel from the M50 to city center than it is from say Listowel up to the M50.

So yeah put the hospital in an isolated IKEA type location, rather than a vibrant city center where family and friends can meet up for lunch, take breaks from the hospital, take kids on little excursions etc.. Nothing more important than being just off the M50.


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