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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:39 pm 
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Luan wrote:
The sad thing is that Bernard McNamara probably didn't know the building was missing fire stops, etc.
The sickening thing is hundreds of builders on the site did :sick:

Ahhh come on even you know the ethos and leader ship comes from the top.

If 100's at the bottom knew then the architect knew, the engineer knew. The culture and running of the business coming from the top was to blame. This was deliberate cost cutting and criminal negligence IMHO.

Imagine what they would do in the US if a bunch of J1 students died in an apartment block fire because of a lack of fire stoping?

The developer would already be in jail.

Here fuck all will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:55 pm 
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I had deleted from my split house anecdote but follwoing sentiments were also expressed in conversation with Architect contact.

They also felt that the whole fire safety issue of all these apartment blocks was much much bigger than was being reported/discovered. They felt it was being kept out of the media somehow.

So if that's one brief chat with an architect... how many more anecdotally share such sentiments?

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Of course it's important to remind ourselves that most of us live in houses that have poorer fire standards than that since they were built to older standards. That's how it was explained to me on the Pin. It doesn't make it ok or in any way excusable but it doesn't make Longboat a "death trap" or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:29 pm 
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The private sector is fundamentally incapable of solving this problem due to limited liability of directors and the ability to wind up companies and effectively dissolve their obligations.

State inspections are the only solution. Just fucking do it already.

And this in a week where the govt is announcing tens of billions of "infrastructure investment", in a period where local authorities are voting to cut their property tax revenues. And yet there is still apparently no money, capacity or will to regulate.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
The private sector is fundamentally incapable of solving this problem due to limited liability of directors and the ability to wind up companies and effectively dissolve their obligations.

State inspections are the only solution. Just fucking do it already.

And this in a week where the govt is announcing tens of billions of "infrastructure investment", in a period where local authorities are voting to cut their property tax revenues. And yet there is still apparently no money, capacity or will to regulate.


+1.

Although I do wonder if you could solve it via the insurance route; e.g. by requiring a 20-year insurance policy or bond to be posted by the developer (in practice, they would pay an insurer). Presumably the insurers would then police it by setting premiums depending on the level of confidence in the builder's processes etc. It that workable?

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:07 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
The private sector is fundamentally incapable of solving this problem due to limited liability of directors and the ability to wind up companies and effectively dissolve their obligations.

State inspections are the only solution. Just fucking do it already.

And this in a week where the govt is announcing tens of billions of "infrastructure investment", in a period where local authorities are voting to cut their property tax revenues. And yet there is still apparently no money, capacity or will to regulate.


Why can't the councils review building work - like the UK and in the US ("up to code" is an often heard statement).

They should not be held liable for errors but it would be better to have them check certain specific critical aspects of a build than some architect or QS who is being paid by the developer and might have a relationship with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:52 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
Although I do wonder if you could solve it via the insurance route; e.g. by requiring a 20-year insurance policy or bond to be posted by the developer (in practice, they would pay an insurer). Presumably the insurers would then police it by setting premiums depending on the level of confidence in the builder's processes etc. It that workable?

Insurance? A bit like like Homebond?

edit: the other problem with insurance liabilities is that they tend to get picked up by the citizenry anyway, cf. Quinn.

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Last edited by Eschatologist on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:59 pm 
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Anyone got the RTE News interview MacNamara gave when he went bankrupt.


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:21 pm 
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AWAAF wrote:
Anyone got the RTE News interview MacNamara gave when he went bankrupt.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0113/126304-mcnamarab/ -> Listen: Drivetime: Drivetime 13/01/10 ->40min to 60m


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Although I do wonder if you could solve it via the insurance route; e.g. by requiring a 20-year insurance policy or bond to be posted by the developer (in practice, they would pay an insurer). Presumably the insurers would then police it by setting premiums depending on the level of confidence in the builder's processes etc. It that workable?

Insurance? A bit like like Homebond?

edit: the other problem with insurance liabilities is that they tend to get picked up by the citizenry anyway, cf. Quinn.



A bit like Homebond if
1) it was run by the insurance industry rather than the construction industry
2) it provided coverage for a full range of construction defects and errors, rather than just "my house spontaneously fell over"
3) it was actually possible to make a claim

Take your point re solvency but that's a bigger issue for the whole insurance industry.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:57 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
Of course it's important to remind ourselves that most of us live in houses that have poorer fire standards than that since they were built to older standards. That's how it was explained to me on the Pin. It doesn't make it ok or in any way excusable but it doesn't make Longboat a "death trap" or whatever.


I'm interested in this point of it (and maybe it should be another thread), as since purchasing and living in an older house there's no inspections, no guidelines for what you should have, no information provided on the standards, etc. Will it ever be inspected? Should it be looked at? What should you have?


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:03 pm 
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temene wrote:
Norman Campbell, fire protection inspector, was on Liveline saying that this is just the tip of the iceberg. He mentioned Belmayne as he did a 'fire stopping' report on it. He said that in his view 90% of boomtime developments have fire safety issues.


Perhaps it would be more accurate to 95% of all apartments.

All the apartments build before the boom have fire stopping issues if not rectified.


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:37 pm 
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On prime time now.


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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Luan wrote:
temene wrote:
Norman Campbell, fire protection inspector, was on Liveline saying that this is just the tip of the iceberg. He mentioned Belmayne as he did a 'fire stopping' report on it. He said that in his view 90% of boomtime developments have fire safety issues.


Perhaps it would be more accurate to 95% of all apartments.

All the apartments build before the boom have fire stopping issues if not rectified.


Whoa, and I was going to end my previous post suggesting that most probably 80% would most likely be dubious, but that looks generous now. I'm sure I'm on record here to that affect in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Need pitbull journalist: NAMA, McNamara, fire "death tra
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:35 pm 
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hairy cake wrote:
Mantissa wrote:
Of course it's important to remind ourselves that most of us live in houses that have poorer fire standards than that since they were built to older standards. That's how it was explained to me on the Pin. It doesn't make it ok or in any way excusable but it doesn't make Longboat a "death trap" or whatever.


I'm interested in this point of it (and maybe it should be another thread), as since purchasing and living in an older house there's no inspections, no guidelines for what you should have, no information provided on the standards, etc. Will it ever be inspected? Should it be looked at? What should you have?


You don't need a fire cert if yours is the only dwelling in a building and it would be unfair if fire regs were applied retrospectively on all buildings. They don't even inspect houses in multiple occupation unless there's a complaint. There are a lot of older houses in flats that are properly dangerous (e.g. nothing to stop fires travelling up through ceilings into floors above, no protection of escape routes). However, no one will arrive to shut them down. I've seen loads of places without central fire alarms for example. Only if the owner applied for planning permission would the council insist they bring their fire safety up to modern regulations.


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