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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:32 pm 
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FreeFallin wrote:
Nice. The real Coles2 is definitely back
No, it was a serious question. Do you remember her election?


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:36 pm 
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dipole wrote:
the only reason she was elected was because FG fielded a candidate a more worthy but too weak to capitalise on Lenihan's faux pas.


Not really.

She benefited from a few things:
-Currie was not a strong candidate and FG were weak at the time
-Lenihan mobilised the core FF vote but proved transfer-repellent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pre ... tion,_1990

So Currie's transfers pushed her from 2nd to first place after the first count.

But none of this would have happened had she not run an extremely strong campaign and surprised everyone by pulling in 39% of the first preference vote herself.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
dipole wrote:
the only reason she was elected was because FG fielded a candidate a more worthy but too weak to capitalise on Lenihan's faux pas.


Not really.

She benefited from a few things:
-Currie was not a strong candidate and FG were weak at the time
-Lenihan mobilised the core FF vote but proved transfer-repellent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_pre ... tion,_1990

So Currie's transfers pushed her from 2nd to first place after the first count.

But none of this would have happened had she not run an extremely strong campaign and surprised everyone by pulling in 39% of the first preference vote herself.

and do you not think that the "Anyone but FF" voter would not have voted for a stronger FG candidate?
It is just another case of poor election strategy by FG.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:59 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Irelad would have 'emerged' during that period with or without Robbo....nothing to do with her.
It was everything to do with her.

What was the causal mechanism?

In a few words; respect for women.

Ireland in 1990 was a kip. The only thing to look forward to was beers on the boat to Holyhead. Fianna Fail had completely ruined the place. We had Haughey and CRH and Ansbacher and Lenihan telling us that 'shure we can't all live on a small island', and moving statues, and heroin, and SPUC and bullshitting bishops. Pee Flynn, the misogynist cock made his comment about Robinson's 'new found interest in her family' and Lenihan was caught out lying that 'no one rang the president', and suddenly enough Irish people had enough of the crap. They knew exactly what she represented; they knew from her background that she would champion human rights, and in particular women's rights. As she said at the time, it was the women of Ireland who elected her, but her election was the first glimpse of a better future for this country for all of us.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:08 pm 
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Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Irelad would have 'emerged' during that period with or without Robbo....nothing to do with her.
It was everything to do with her.

What was the causal mechanism?

In a few words; respect for women.

Ireland in 1990 was a shit hole. The only thing to look forward to was beers on the boat to Holyhead. Fianna Fail had completely ruined the place. We had Haughey and CRH and Ansbacher and that arsehole Lenihan telling us that 'shure we can't all live on a small island', and moving fucking statues, and heroin, and SPUC and bullshitting bishops. Pee Flynn, the misogynist prick made his comment about Robinson's 'new found interest in her family' and Lenihan was caught out lying that 'no one rang the president', and suddenly enough Irish people had enough of the crap. They knew exactly what she represented; they knew from her background that she would champion human rights, and in particular women's rights. As she said at the time, it was the women of Ireland who elected her, but her election was the first glimpse of a better future for this country for all of us.


No. No I don't accept that. I don't accept that AT ALL!
As a lad I remember going down to Dublin for a weekend of family fun!
The highlight was the pantomime with Maureen Potter.
She was dressed all in green, like Robin Hood, the green jersey on before any of us knew what it meant.
Funny as f*ck, splitting our sides we were, for hours, and we're still laughing now, years later!
Ireland was a great place back then.
You just needed to know where to look.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:22 pm 
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@Inis Man, :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:31 am 
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http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-m ... -1.2843020

Quote:
The Mary Robinson Centre is no vanity project
Presidential archives don’t have to be in the Pale to be a resource for everyone

The reality is that the Mary Robinson Centre will be Ireland’s first presidential library – and the world’s first such library dedicated to a female president. It is being developed in partnership with Mayo County Council and the National University of Ireland Galway to preserve and provide public access to Mary Robinson’s legacy as a politician, as a transformative Irish president and as a global champion for human rights, gender equality and climate justice.


Peter Hynes is chief executive of Mayo County Council


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:14 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Irelad would have 'emerged' during that period with or without Robbo....nothing to do with her.
It was everything to do with her.

What was the causal mechanism?

In a few words; respect for women.

Ireland in 1990 was a kip. The only thing to look forward to was beers on the boat to Holyhead. Fianna Fail had completely ruined the place. We had Haughey and CRH and Ansbacher and Lenihan telling us that 'shure we can't all live on a small island', and moving statues, and heroin, and SPUC and bullshitting bishops. Pee Flynn, the misogynist cock made his comment about Robinson's 'new found interest in her family' and Lenihan was caught out lying that 'no one rang the president', and suddenly enough Irish people had enough of the crap. They knew exactly what she represented; they knew from her background that she would champion human rights, and in particular women's rights. As she said at the time, it was the women of Ireland who elected her, but her election was the first glimpse of a better future for this country for all of us.


Agree totally. Mary Robinson doesn't look as good in todays context and this library business does her no favours whatsoever. However in 1990 her candidature was the best option available to the disparate bunch of people who wanted to say 'f*ck you' to the rotten, crooked establishment of Ireland. That disparate bunch included women, people under 30, people who were fed up with the control of the church and left wing voters (who were a higher %age of the electorate than now) and a fair proportion of FG voters who really didn't like the FG attitude that they would vote for FGs candidate like sheep no matter who he was.

Mary Robinsons election was a pivot point - what ever your view of the woman herself or of the labour party it was the first time we kicked dust in the eye of the old guard. And the best thing about was that they never saw it coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:18 am 
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Just because this is a ridiculous vanity project (of Mayo CC, by the sounds of it), doesn't mean Ms Robinson wasn't a good President and vice-versa. To me, she came to epitomise a welcome change in social and cultural values in Ireland, one that made the country attractive for returnees.

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:31 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
suddenly enough Irish people had enough of the crap. They knew exactly what she represented


yoganmahew wrote:
she came to epitomise a welcome change in social and cultural values in Ireland


metalmike wrote:
her candidature was the best option available to the disparate bunch of people who wanted to say 'f*ck you' to the rotten, crooked establishment of Ireland


The real answer to the casual relationship question is obvious from your answers. She was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

That last quote is deliciously Trumpian, by the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:49 am 
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tinneym wrote:
The real answer to the casual relationship question is obvious from your answers. She was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

She was in the right place at the right time and also had the inherent ability to take advantage of it. If Labour had instead nominated a party grandee then they would likely have lost to Lenihan.

tinneym wrote:
That last quote is deliciously Trumpian, by the way.

Which kind of proves the point, no? With all his advantages, in addition to being in the right place at the right time, it looks like he will not succeed in riding that wave of discontent to an election victory.

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:02 am 
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"I think its safe to return to Ireland as Robbo has just become President, let's pack our bags honey!!!
The President is a figure head, nothing more nothing less. Attributing credit to them for things that would have happened anyway is just political gamesmanship.


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:50 am 
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JohnnyTheFox wrote:
tinneym wrote:
The real answer to the casual relationship question is obvious from your answers. She was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

She was in the right place at the right time and also had the inherent ability to take advantage of it. If Labour had instead nominated a party grandee then they would likely have lost to Lenihan.

tinneym wrote:
That last quote is deliciously Trumpian, by the way.

Which kind of proves the point, no? With all his advantages, in addition to being in the right place at the right time, it looks like he will not succeed in riding that wave of discontent to an election victory.

In 20 years will people hold up Clinton as chosen as a beacon of hope or paragon of whatever, or will they think she was a weak candidate who would have lost if an old audio tape of her opponent running his mouth hadn't been uncovered. Plenty parallels


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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:13 pm 
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slasher wrote:
JohnnyTheFox wrote:
tinneym wrote:
The real answer to the casual relationship question is obvious from your answers. She was in the right place at the right time, nothing more.

She was in the right place at the right time and also had the inherent ability to take advantage of it. If Labour had instead nominated a party grandee then they would likely have lost to Lenihan.

tinneym wrote:
That last quote is deliciously Trumpian, by the way.

Which kind of proves the point, no? With all his advantages, in addition to being in the right place at the right time, it looks like he will not succeed in riding that wave of discontent to an election victory.

In 20 years will people hold up Clinton as chosen as a beacon of hope or paragon of whatever, or will they think she was a weak candidate who would have lost if an old audio tape of her opponent running his mouth hadn't been uncovered. Plenty parallels

Some parallels but the dissimilarities are more striking. Clinton is running for a party which has shared the presidency with the other main party for almost two centuries. Having a women in the role will be novel but Clinton will represent more of the same. In Ireland Fianna Fail had held a lock on the presidency, with Fine Gael as the only realistic other contender, such that Labour didn't even bother to run a candidate before Robinson. That she managed to get elected, despite history being stacked against her, was an achievement of major significance. It's probably a stretch to say she caused the subsequent change in Ireland but, for many, she was symbolic of that change and certainly one of the more visible drivers of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mary Robinson’s Papers / "Presidential Library "
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:17 pm 
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JohnnyTheFox wrote:
Some parallels but the dissimilarities are more striking

They sure are striking...1 could have her finger on the nuclear button, the other lit a candle


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