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 Post subject: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:01 am 
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Let's try and keep the madness contained to a single thread.

Here it is from Wikipedia.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:12 am 
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A history of polling on the issue (from the IFPA who presumably support repealing):

https://www.ifpa.ie/Hot-Topics/Abortion/Public-Opinion

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:31 am 
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Best of luck keeping this thread from being derailed mantissa.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:00 am 
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Just to kick things off...

I was discussing this with a lady who would be fairly pro-life.
Her thinking is that as soon as "Pregnant" show up on the test kit, well then there's a human inside you.

I'm pro-choice, and by choice I mean it's the woman's choice.

I just cant see a situation where the man has the choice.
I can understand the man being in the conversation, and having a 49.999% say, but the balance of power is with the woman.

The conversation stopped there. Politely.


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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:24 am 
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Good luck keeping this thread clean.

I wish they would just let us get on and vote on the issue instead of kicking the can down the road and avoiding it as much as they possibly can.

I'm pro life I think life is great, I love it. It's pretty fun.

As for the 8th amendment, it is a blunt horrible amendment which causes the direct unnesisary suffering to a lot of women and prevents them from accessing safe services which they clearly want.

Worst of all the 8th amendment is directly discriminatory between rich and poor. Those that have means and can travel or have a friend in Northern Ireland can access the full range of abortion services, those that can't (the poor, those in the care of the state including asylum seekers) are prevented. That's plainly unfair and discriminatory. For that reason alone it should be repealed.

So on the issue of the 8th I'm pro repeal.

Keeping this on topic I'm not going to advocate abortion access, the merits or dismerits of it. That's not what this thread is about.

The issue is the 8th. It should be repealed as it is a bad piece of discriminatory legislation. I would go further to suggest it shouldn't be replaced by anything as quite simply access to or preventing access to medical treatment shouldn't be in the constitution it should be dealt with legislatively.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:24 am 
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@TI, +1. I fully agree. It's bad law and needs to go.


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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:25 am 
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As a man no one protests my access to to vasectomies which is termination of my part of the reproductive process.

If I'm allowed to make such a selfish decision then why not the right be extended to all regardless of gender?

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:40 am 
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catbear wrote:
As a man no one protests my access to to vasectomies which is termination of my part of the reproductive process.

If I'm allowed to make such a selfish decision then why not the right be extended to all regardless of gender?

The female equivalent is called a tubal ligation and is perfectly legal. But if you want to start a campaign to legalise vasectomies for women, go right ahead. You never know how far a wacky idea will get with all the modern gender confusion.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:46 am 
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A relative of mine left the church in tears just this Sunday gone after, in place of the homily, the priest allowed a pro life advocate up to have their say.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:52 am 
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Dubhgeannain wrote:
A relative of mine left the church in tears just this Sunday gone after, in place of the homily, the priest allowed a pro life advocate up to have their say.

Apart from the priest isn't supposed to be allowed to delegate the homily, why were they in tears?

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:23 pm 
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That's what I thought. Very strange that it happened.

The summary of the speech was don't heed the doctors. Pray to God. It worked for me. This relative had to give birth to a dead child. She knew the child was dead for around four months. Her own experience was that she wasn't looking for an abortion but early inducement which was refused by the nuns running the hospital.

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The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by'. The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what?
Sophie Scholl


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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:28 pm 
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PS, could you please address responses without insults.

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:34 pm 
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Braighni wrote:
Just to kick things off...

I was discussing this with a lady who would be fairly pro-life.
Her thinking is that as soon as "Pregnant" show up on the test kit, well then there's a human inside you.

I'm pro-choice, and by choice I mean it's the woman's choice.

I just cant see a situation where the man has the choice.
I can understand the man being in the conversation, and having a 49.999% say, but the balance of power is with the woman.

The conversation stopped there. Politely.


Serious question. At what stage of a child's development would you consider it wrong to allow the mother have an elective TOP?

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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:42 pm 
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I always thought that Abortion is like Euthanasia - it's a complex emotive personal and yet human issue that cant' be dealt with by a blunt instrument like a referendum - either way you look at it.

Part of the problem with discussions on the topic is the unfortunate and simplistic language that's used on both sides and the crystallisation around feminist arguments. It becomes a "Woman" issue and is debated in this context -not in the wider context of human society. I'm not saying its not a feminist issue but its not solely a feminist issue.

Whatever the relative merit of the Repeal arguments are, it will always be thought of (wrongly) as a referendum on Abortion. We will all have to read endless personal stories from women on their abortion plight (many no doubt are miserable journeys for them) and we will have endless illogical arguments from the other side on the absolute right to life that is indistinguishable.

The debate will go no where.

As an aside, can someone please tell the Iona Institute that if they are to supply debaters to RTE to argue the topic, can they please ensure their representative has some basic level of intellect.


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 Post subject: Re: The 8th Amendment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:46 pm 
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The way I see it all women are designed to like/love babies especially their own (I am taking this from my own experience of becoming a mother 3 times). I don't think any girl grows up with the ambition to have an abortion so lets go through the reasons a woman might opt for an abortion:

1. Medical - her life is in potential danger, she may already have other children who would be a priority, had a previous traumatic birth etc...
2. Quality of life for the child and family - this depends to a large extent on the supports available for family and child after the birth and a most of this comes from the state
3. Economic - the government have recently cut single parent benefit, that's not really a pro life policy
4. Society pressure to have a career, a stable relationship, have enough money to raise a child etc...
5. Rape or abusive relationship
6. Contraception failure - shit happens but the reasons not to proceed with the pregnancy go back to reasons 1 to 4 above

If society wants to reduce abortions they need to support all mothers and children medically, socially and economically.
Restricting choice to those who can afford it, denying follow up care once you return home and demonising those who make the "wrong" choice is lacking in compassion and understanding of why someone makes that difficult choice.


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