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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Property Magnate

Joined: Aug 30, 2015
Posts: 510
DSE3Br wrote:
Will this new charity have a catholic ethos a la Edmund Rice Trust? AKA a fudge.


Thats a good questions as the way that ERST works is that, rather than being an inactive trust/charity, it actively controls a schools Board of Management by appointing 4 members including the Chairperson.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Planning Tribunal Attendee

Joined: Oct 7, 2014
Posts: 1015
onioneater wrote:
DSE3Br wrote:
Will this new charity have a catholic ethos a la Edmund Rice Trust? AKA a fudge.


Thats a good questions as the way that ERST works is that, rather than being an inactive trust/charity, it actively controls a schools Board of Management by appointing 4 members including the Chairperson.


The coverage I've read has claimed otherwise - the group will be completely independent - but obviously the devil is in the detail.

Very welcome development if what I've read is true though. As critical as I've been of the nuns, this appears to be a decision taken in the genuine best interests of maternal care in the country, and I think appreciation is justified if so.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 2128
The nuns have shafted the State by giving them a private hospital and land worth €100s of millions?

Who is going to be responsible for running of the hospital - HSE, the consultants or DoH. In the good old days the church could be blamed if anything went wrong - who will take the flack if we have another Ballinasloe?

Also I wonder will the State be forced to sell the private hospital or will it just be left to the consultants to run as they see fit :)


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Too Big to Fail

Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 3097
Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
Luan wrote:
The nuns have shafted the State by giving them a private hospital and land worth €100s of millions?

Who is going to be responsible for running of the hospital - HSE, the consultants or DoH. In the good old days the church could be blamed if anything went wrong - who will take the flack if we have another Ballinasloe?

Also I wonder will the State be forced to sell the private hospital or will it just be left to the consultants to run as they see fit :)

The private-medicine element of this is being under-discussed.
A nuns-run hospital will include private medical facilities on the grounds, which means consultants having private rooms and the whole co-mingling of public and private medicine that we see across the Irish system.
A fully publicly owned hospital would interact with that in a different way.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 19, 2010
Posts: 2686
Location: Dublin SE
Luan wrote:
The nuns have shafted the State by giving them a private hospital and land worth €100s of millions?

Who is going to be responsible for running of the hospital - HSE, the consultants or DoH. In the good old days the church could be blamed if anything went wrong - who will take the flack if we have another Ballinasloe?

Also I wonder will the State be forced to sell the private hospital or will it just be left to the consultants to run as they see fit :)

To be clear the nuns are not giving it to the state in any way shape or form.
They are divesting themselves from the limited company that already runs the hospital and that company is being rebranded.

_________________
"Perfect is the enemy of the good"
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 2128
My understanding is that the NMH is a fully public owned hospital managed by a consultant dominated Board.

I also understand NMH consultants are able to service private patients during their public hours without the need to work the hours up at a later date - the argument being, private patients are equally entitled to the public service.

The NMH board has even allowed consultants (fertility clinic) to defer their rental obligations because times were hard during the recession.

Your general HSE hospitals have neither the management systems nor controls in place to manage this type of abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Apr 9, 2014
Posts: 2128
Terra Incognita wrote:
Luan wrote:
The nuns have shafted the State by giving them a private hospital and land worth €100s of millions?

Who is going to be responsible for running of the hospital - HSE, the consultants or DoH. In the good old days the church could be blamed if anything went wrong - who will take the flack if we have another Ballinasloe?

Also I wonder will the State be forced to sell the private hospital or will it just be left to the consultants to run as they see fit :)

To be clear the nuns are not giving it to the state in any way shape or form.
They are divesting themselves from the limited company that already runs the hospital and that company is being rebranded.
.

:roll: To be precise they are transferring their shareholding in SVHG to a newly formed company with charitable status.

Rather than divesting their interest, they could have liquidated the group and distribute the net proceeds to the shareholders.

I am sure these would be substantial once the public hospitals were closed and the land sold off. They might even get a few bob for Vincents private.


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Oct 19, 2010
Posts: 2686
Location: Dublin SE
Luan wrote:
My understanding is that the NMH is a fully public owned hospital managed by a consultant dominated Board.

I also understand NMH consultants are able to service private patients during their public hours without the need to work the hours up at a later date - the argument being, private patients are equally entitled to the public service.

The NMH board has even allowed consultants (fertility clinic) to defer their rental obligations because times were hard during the recession.

Your general HSE hospitals have neither the management systems nor controls in place to manage this type of abuse.

The NMH is not publicly owned. It like St Vincents is a voluntary hospital. St Vincents has a corporate structure the NMH is established by Royal Charter (I kid you not) the charter establishing the hospital is managed by I think 100 governers.

The NMH consultants are able to service private patients presumably because there is no alternative private maternity hospital in the state. I would be surprised if they did not discharge their public contracts in full. If they did not that would obviously be wrong and shouldn't be supported in any way.

As for the fertility clinic (which operates as a not for profit charity and separate entity to the NMH), it was reported that the clinic is fully up to date with rent payments. Presumably, if that deferral had not been granted then the clinic would have had to turn away patients which is in no one's interest.

_________________
"Perfect is the enemy of the good"
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:46 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Feb 24, 2008
Posts: 1640
DSE3Br wrote:
Will this new charity have a catholic ethos a la Edmund Rice Trust? AKA a fudge.

It would appear not, I'm pleasantly surprised...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/s ... -1.3100852


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 Post subject: Re: New National Maternity Hospital
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:08 am 
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IMF'd

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 31921
Location: Tullamore
Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
The private-medicine element of this is being under-discussed.
A nuns-run hospital will include private medical facilities on the grounds, which means consultants having private rooms and the whole co-mingling of public and private medicine that we see across the Irish system.
A fully publicly owned hospital would interact with that in a different way.

Every hospital, I believe, includes private rooms on the grounds. It's a source of income to the hospital...

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So long and thanks for all the fish.


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