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 Post subject: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:05 am 
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Senior Warsaw judges have described as a “nuclear bomb” the High Court’s refusal to extradite a Polish man over fears judicial reforms there have undermined the independence of courts and threaten the rule of law.

On Monday, Ms Justice Aileen Donnelly halted an extradition case involving Polish man Artur Celmer, sought in his homeland on drug-trafficking charges, to seek guidance from the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg.

Justice Donnelly said “immense” legislative changes to Poland’s judicial system called into question the mutual trust that forms the basis of the European Arrest Warrant system.

“This is extremely significant because this is the very first case of this type in the history of the European Union

As Poland “appears no longer to accept that there are common European values which must be respected”, Justice Donnelly said she would formulate a question next week seeking clarification from the Luxembourg court.

Andrzej Rzeplinski, until 2016 the president of the constitutional tribunal and leading critic of the government reforms, welcomed the High Court intervention.

“This is extremely significant because this is the very first case of this type in the history of the European Union,” said Mr Rzeplinski to The Irish Times. “The ECJ is the only court which can decide this very important question . . . and resolve this tragic situation.”

‘Rule of law’

Another ex-constitutional tribunal justice, who asked not to be named, described the High Court referral as a “nuclear bomb and a good day for the rule of law”.

The suspended extradition request brings Irish bilateral relations with Poland into uncharted waters. It may also open a second front in the European Commission’s stand-off with Poland’s national conservative Law and Justice party (PiS).



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.3424625

Hard to gauge whether this is an attack by proxy (via the Irish Judicial system) by the EU on Poland or whether its a genuine case of the principles governing the supposed increase in cooperation and trust amongst member states unravelling.

Donald Tusk was in Dublin a few days ago. Around the same time his party (the opposition) an opinion poll stated that his party was lagging massively behind the Government party who enjoys huge support from the Polish electorate.

The world is quite clearly changing by the day and by the looks of things the EU (at least in its current form and with its current mission) may not last a whole lot longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:55 am 
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While the rest of Europe has been preoccupied by Brexit, and whether or not the UK will skid uncontrolled out of the European Union, a slow-motion car crash has been taking place in Poland.

The country whose bravery, like no other, contributed to European unity is now racing towards a cliff. At the wheel is Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the head of the ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party. The 68-year-old holds no official office in the Polish government, yet he is engaged in a staggering game of chicken with EU institutions and neighbours. And all because of a reform agenda that has left no stone unturned in Poland since his national conservative party scored an absolute majority in October 2015.

PiS sells its reform agenda as completing Poland’s incomplete transition to democracy in 1989, by sidelining post-communist cronies from positions of power. To secure its mandate, the Kaczynski team stoked, then tapped, widespread frustration at urban elites and an unequal distribution of wealth in the democratic era. PiS delivered on its promise, to do politics for the plain people of Poland, with popular measures such as a 500zloty (€119) monthly children’s allowance. This has been a huge boost for struggling families in the PiS rural heartland and today the party enjoys 44 per cent support, more than six points up on its 2015 election result.

Separation of powers

But critics see PiS in the reform agenda a far less noble aim: complete control of every aspect of Polish life by abolishing the separation of powers, checks and balances and the rule of law – the non-negotiables of EU membership.

The public broadcaster TVP has been purged of critical thinkers and turned into a government propaganda outfit, they say. Likewise the civil and diplomatic services. The state prosecutor is now the justice minister. Government politicians dominate bodies that appoint new judges and, to expedite judicial reform, sitting judges have been shown the door with new retirement rules – women judges five years earlier than their male colleagues.


https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/is-p ... -1.3427207

Unfortunately for the likes of the IT, it seems to be the case that when Governments actually implement the will of the majority of the people ie when 'democracy' actually occurs, the results tend not to reflect the agenda of the mainstream liberal establishment that holds sway in most of western Europe.

The reality appears to be that the Polish Government enjoys levels of support that your average mainstream western European political party can only dream of. Why is that I wonder?

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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:21 am 
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Perhaps because a lot of the people who would have voted for the opposition have emigrated?

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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
The reality appears to be that the Polish Government enjoys levels of support that your average mainstream western European political party can only dream of. Why is that I wonder?

Support for EU membership is also very strong there too.

Probably because of its history of being road kill between east and west there's probably a instinct to play all sides, although like the way UK is lunging into a Russian confrontation to escape Brexit it's as likely that Polish judicial independence will be upheld in the interest of staying in the camp opposing Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:22 pm 
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catbear wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
The reality appears to be that the Polish Government enjoys levels of support that your average mainstream western European political party can only dream of. Why is that I wonder?

Support for EU membership is also very strong there too.

Probably because of its history of being road kill between east and west there's probably a instinct to play all sides, although like the way UK is lunging into a Russian confrontation to escape Brexit it's as likely that Polish judicial independence will be upheld in the interest of staying in the camp opposing Russia.


It looks like the Polish Government is ignoring / breaking their own constitutional laws. There is I guess no argument to be made against a people democratically electing to abandon democracy (maybe there is?) but it at least need to be within the legal framework, i.e. change the constitution.
However, I think even doing that would mean leaving the EU as EU laws rely on democratic principles being the baseline for all member states.

This is the argument that is made by the (EU) courts - that whatever laws are being introduced are not conforming with the Polish constitution, and that these appointments are therefore not valid.
At least that's my understanding.

As for the "levels of support" - democracy is hard, as you probably well aware.


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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:45 pm 
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newirishman wrote:
This is the argument that is made by the (EU) courts - that whatever laws are being introduced are not conforming with the Polish constitution, and that these appointments are therefore not valid.
At least that's my understanding.


It would help if they spelled it out to people what these Polish laws are. The only thing a layman would have heard about recently are the laws concerning Poland's participation in the Holocaust. Much of the genocide occurring on 'Polish' land. Touchy, touchy stuff, if this is the issue, you may ask what are the Irish courts doing getting involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Epicurus wrote:
newirishman wrote:
This is the argument that is made by the (EU) courts - that whatever laws are being introduced are not conforming with the Polish constitution, and that these appointments are therefore not valid.
At least that's my understanding.


It would help if they spelled it out to people what these Polish laws are. The only thing a layman would have heard about recently are the laws concerning Poland's participation in the Holocaust. Much of the genocide occurring on 'Polish' land. Touchy, touchy stuff, if this is the issue, you may ask what are the Irish courts doing getting involved.

Working at the bidding of our European Masters as usual


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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Usual ignorance of the justice system on display.

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 Post subject: Re: Polish EAW Case - 'Nuclear Bomb' for EU legal structure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Usual ignorance of the justice system on display.


For clarity, a "display" in the thread or the courts? BD

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