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 Post subject: Re: Sindo publishes Politicians worth
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:53 pm 
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We get what we elect. As long as the system is reasonably transparent in terms of declaration of interests -- which ironically the OP's article implies must be the case -- then blame the people who elect NIMBYs like Shane Ross and outright crooks like Lowry.

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 Post subject: Re: Sindo publishes Politicians worth
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:29 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
Uh, what's the big deal? Is that their annual earnings or their net worth? Assuming the latter, none of them look filthy rich to me, and some of them are near paupers.

Quote:
They calculate their goldplated pensions + shares + property + business value = €m's

So that is their total worth, including pension pots and property? Uh, half a mill wouldn't buy you a corpo house in Dalkey. None of these people are rich. A few look passingly comfortable. And a senior politician's public pension will be reckoned as a couple of million worth -- nice to have, but puts a gleam on net worth that doesn't actually represent cash in hand. It's quite possible pension represents most of the value outside the top forty. Plus some are business owners and it's a fact of life that people accumulate more assets as they age. Sorry, I'm finding this all a bit underwhelming. It's only a short hop from blaming them for being old white cis-gender males.


The thing is that most people who hang around on this site are, at a rough guess , mainly middle class male owner occupiers who live in the better areas of Dublin. If I include my almost paid off PPR and my (defined contribution) pension pot I'm in the upper half of that list and have worked the guts of 40 years to get there with an income that has pretty consistently been in the top 10% of earnings for the last 10 of these years. I would take a guess that 90% of the population fal in the bottom 10% of that list. To them these people look rich - you need to remember that because that influences the way that our politicians and our 'betters' think - anybody who is not on that kind of money is a lazy good-for-nothing who doesn't get up in the morning. Policy is biased towards those in the top 90% of that list.

It's difficult to tell from the article whether property refers only to rental property or to PPRs as well - it suggests it refers to PPRs and I'm surprised how many don't appear to own one if that is the case. To be fair it should be value net of mortgage if declared.

You also need to remember that in many cases the wealth of spouses is not included here - the devious have transferred wealth, the less devious have just not mentioned it (because they don't have to). There as at least one person on that list who would top Michael Lowry if their family wealth was taken into account (as I write this I realise there is a another one)


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 Post subject: Re: Sindo publishes Politicians worth
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:46 pm 
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metalmike wrote:
It's difficult to tell from the article whether property refers only to rental property or to PPRs as well - it suggests it refers to PPRs and I'm surprised how many don't appear to own one if that is the case. To be fair it should be value net of mortgage if declared.


Well it's a bit pointless if it doesn't refer to positions net of debt. Given that we know about 20-25% of TDs are Landlords, and 20-25% of TDs have engaged David Hall for 'where's my nama?' purposes.

So many of them would have been up to their tits in debt. The former deputy leader of FG and Health minister James Reilly was in Stubbs Gazette for God's sake.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/james-reillys-nursing-home-debts-are-cleared-31369848.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sindo publishes Politicians worth
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:27 am 
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metalmike wrote:
You also need to remember that in many cases the wealth of spouses is not included here - the devious have transferred wealth, the less devious have just not mentioned it (because they don't have to). There as at least one person on that list who would top Michael Lowry if their family wealth was taken into account (as I write this I realise there is a another one)

I guess for any long-term Irish resident you can break this down into:

- Liquid assets net of debt ("Lambo money").
- Present value of future non-means-tested entitlements (pensions and benefits, including non-contributory State pension).
- Potential wealth (possible inheritances, means-/situation-tested benefits e.g. unemployment benefits)

Spousal wealth should be offset against the liability side of having a spouse and the risk of that asset putting itself under new management.

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