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How will you vote on the proposed word change to Article 40.6.1 (re-voting allowed)
Yes - Remove it at once! 78%  78%  [ 28 ]
No - I like the idea, sure it's grand. 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 36
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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
But why remove blasphemy and not seditious or indecent matter?

If you're bothered about those things you could start a campaign to have them removed.

Do you want them removed?


would have voted yes for a free speech amendment. this is a piss poor amendment that wont mean anything except telling the state that 'we' want to heavily punish those who make seditious utterances.

if there is a yes vote, lets see how truely great and brilliant the muzzled have been since 2009 :x

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
Poacher turned gamekeeper wrote:
But why remove blasphemy and not seditious or indecent matter?

If you're bothered about those things you could start a campaign to have them removed.

Do you want them removed?


Im not sure. I havent paid it much attention.

Im just at a bit of a loss as to why blasphemy would be treated differently to a highly subjective term such as 'indecent matter'.

For example I would assume that the term 'indecent matter' was initially conceived of within a culturally religious context. Seems odd that it can be considered worth retaining when blasphemy is being removed.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Thing Fish wrote:
the actual bill reads

to replace the text "blasphemous, seditious" with "seditious" .
just think about that. it is not a removal at all but a re-wording.

It's phrased like that so that there is complete clarity and you're not left with an orphaned comma which might make the reading ambiguous. I don't see how you can read anything more into it than that.

Thing Fish wrote:
Hate speech laws are unconstitutional. muppets like Neale Richmond, Bacik and the rest who are introducing hate speech laws have no right to do so.

On what basis do you think hate speech laws are unconstitutional? If we don't have absolute freedom of speech guaranteed by our constitution then how can laws restricting freedom of speech be unconstitutional.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:02 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
We badly need a US-style 1st Amendment.
All forms of censorship only benefit the powerful.

Eh, no.
They also benefit the disenfranchised - supposing someone started a whispering campaign about Mr. A on t'internet. In Ireland, there're laws to stop that sort of thing; in the US freedom of speech is rarely constrained. They act as a check on the balance of power to speak, including of the media against individuals.

Limitations to the freedom of speech do not necessarily amount to censorship. Given the ability to disseminate speech compared to when the US 1st Amendment was drawn up, limitations amount to a common good.

You can argue that the laws in Ireland are over-strict, but that's a legislative, not a constitutional issue.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:08 pm 
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JohnnyTheFox wrote:
Thing Fish wrote:
the actual bill reads

to replace the text "blasphemous, seditious" with "seditious" .
just think about that. it is not a removal at all but a re-wording.

It's phrased like that so that there is complete clarity and you're not left with an orphaned comma which might make the reading ambiguous. I don't see how you can read anything more into it than that.



If Judge read it like that , would you phone a friend?

Remember how the children's referendum was judged to have conferred a right to life to "ALL" children? Remember how that judgement had to be shot down by the Supremes?

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:30 pm 
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The style seems to be not to debate fundamental constitutional issues anymore when proposing constitutional referendums and sub-contract out the dirty work to international NGO's aided and abetted by the media to run the programming.

The last referendum was text book case.

If I am not mistaken there were no serious debates involving top leadership primary the Taoiseach. I have no recollection of watching hard fought debates by Me Varadkar or Ministers Harris or Zappone.

There are more questions than there are answers to this one and it seems through perhaps media blackout on the issue they hope people merely act in the reflex on hearing the term and give the Government what they want.

Can we answer even one of the following questions with and certainty with relation to removing "blasphemy" from form Article 40.6.1


Why do the Government want it removed?

A: ?

I've offered my view based a little digging turning up one tweet from one FG senator that the Government wants it removed as they feel it would be better dealt with in future Hate Speech legislation. If that is the government position then:

Can we see proposed legislation ion that is the proposed case?

A: ?

Why do the Government want more power over language?

A: ?

Why do the Government seem so silent on this change?

A: ?

What was the impetuous (ground swell) for this proposed change?

A: ?

What is the Taoiseach's position on this proposed change?

A: ?

What is the Cabinets position on this proposed change?

A: ?

What is each and every TD's position on this change?

A: ?

What does it mean in the face of the ECHR ruling yesterday, that you can defame the prophet Muhammed if you refer to him as a Pedopile for marrying a 9 year old girl?

A: ?

What is the view of the Leader, The Cabinet, The Dail in the face of the ECHR ruling yesterday, that you can defame the prophet Muhammed if you refer to him as a Pedophile for marrying a 9 year old girl even if we remove the word from article 40.6.1?

A: ?

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Seriously lads, it's about removing "blasphemy," from the constitution. It's not some theological debate about how many illumanti conspiracy theories can you fit on the head of a pin.

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:37 pm 
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tulip wrote:
Seriously lads, it's about removing "blasphemy," from the constitution. It's not some theological debate about how many illumanti conspiracy theories can you fit on the head of a pin.


What are you on about?

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Open Window wrote:
What are you on about?

See, that's exactly how it feels. :D

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 Post subject: Re: What's in a Word - Blasphemy, Yay or Nay? - POLL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:10 pm 
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tulip wrote:
Seriously lads, it's about removing "blasphemy," from the constitution. It's not some theological debate about how many illumanti conspiracy theories can you fit on the head of a pin.

You're part of the media conspiracy blackout! :D

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