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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:17 pm 
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jmc wrote:

Actually the context of these demo is within the broader dislike of the EU. The people manning the roadblocks mostly vote for explicitly anti EU parties, like RN and FI.

You surveyed them personally?

That's dedication.

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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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If a picture could tell a story!
Image

The revolution continues!


Ironically while being a smash hit all over the world the musical Les Miserables wasn't a hit in France.

They live it!

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Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:22 pm 
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catbear wrote:
jmc wrote:

Actually the context of these demo is within the broader dislike of the EU. The people manning the roadblocks mostly vote for explicitly anti EU parties, like RN and FI.

You surveyed them personally?

That's dedication.


Got family in France? Spent much time there over the decades? Watching and reading the French media daily? Both national and regional. Spent much time following voter turnout demographics in national, regional and local election over the last few decades? Know who votes for who? And why? Hear reports from family and friends about what is happening in their areas? Those are my sources of information and opinion. What are yours? The Guardian? The Huffington Post? Some guy you met in the pub?

The people on the road blocks and blockades, which is where the real action is at the moment, are either apolitical or else vote for a non-center party. Like FI or RN. Go into any bar cafe in any small town / city in France and you will meet and hear lots of these type of people.

Image

This is the typical face of Gilets jaunes all over France at the moment. Very ordinary people who have just had enough of the same old bullshit. The government is not afraid of the casseurs who riot in Paris. Thats business as usual. But they are very very afraid of these provincials. The last time these people mobilized politically the Republic collapsed. At the end of the Fourth.


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Nov 6, 2006
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temene wrote:
There was a Tipp man on Liveline yesterday, stating that rural Ireland is angry, as everyone needs car fuel, and a similar movement may be brewing all over the country. Went on about politicians getting expenses, pay rises etc, whilst ordinary folk are suffering and being ignored


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/p ... 87696.html

Quote:
We want State to pay our hotel bills, say Fine Gael junior ministers on €130,000


Let them eat cake?


How do we square this circle, we have people protesting fuel tax hikes and people protesting climate change inaction (i.e increase fuel taxes)

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEM ... id=AU%3Aen

Quote:
Tens of thousands of climate change protesters march in Brussels


different cohorts/types of people at each protest? Or people not following the logic that tackling climate change means less fossil fuel use. The reality is that people are already here and must be able to afford to live and they do not like being pushed into poverty or even having their standard of living decreased much. They cant all afford teslas


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:54 am 
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Posts: 1016
France government suspends fuel tax hikes for six months
https://www.rte.ie/news/europe/2018/120 ... 70-france/

6 months?
Protesters aren't going to buy that...

I thought all this was a consequence of agenda 21 (no worries, it's totally non binding )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Dec 2, 2013
Posts: 2763
jmc wrote:
catbear wrote:
jmc wrote:

Actually the context of these demo is within the broader dislike of the EU. The people manning the roadblocks mostly vote for explicitly anti EU parties, like RN and FI.

You surveyed them personally?

That's dedication.


Got family in France? Spent much time there over the decades? Watching and reading the French media daily? Both national and regional. Spent much time following voter turnout demographics in national, regional and local election over the last few decades? Know who votes for who? And why? Hear reports from family and friends about what is happening in their areas? Those are my sources of information and opinion. What are yours? The Guardian? The Huffington Post? Some guy you met in the pub?

The people on the road blocks and blockades, which is where the real action is at the moment, are either apolitical or else vote for a non-center party. Like FI or RN. Go into any bar cafe in any small town / city in France and you will meet and hear lots of these type of people.

Image

This is the typical face of Gilets jaunes all over France at the moment. Very ordinary people who have just had enough of the same old bullshit. The government is not afraid of the casseurs who riot in Paris. Thats business as usual. But they are very very afraid of these provincials. The last time these people mobilized politically the Republic collapsed. At the end of the Fourth.



At this time of year I get a few Christmas cards from France. The usual family stuff in them but often a throwaway comment too. But one from an elderly small town dweller - I love how they think in French and write in English
"...as you know France is facing a sad revolution..." then back to family stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:13 pm 
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GameBlame wrote:
At this time of year I get a few Christmas cards from France. The usual family stuff in them but often a throwaway comment too. But one from an elderly small town dweller - I love how they think in French and write in English
"...as you know France is facing a sad revolution..." then back to family stuff.

as opposed to "... facing a happy revolution..."


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:48 pm 
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temene wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
At this time of year I get a few Christmas cards from France. The usual family stuff in them but often a throwaway comment too. But one from an elderly small town dweller - I love how they think in French and write in English
"...as you know France is facing a sad revolution..." then back to family stuff.

as opposed to "... facing a happy revolution..."


How will your written French be when you're heading for 90 ?
I'd say if you discussed it with them in French the word used would be "tragic"....meaning a sad, but avoidable mess for poor sad people driven to action by Macron et al.


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 4436
GameBlame wrote:
jmc wrote:

This is the typical face of Gilets jaunes all over France at the moment. Very ordinary people who have just had enough of the same old bullshit. The government is not afraid of the casseurs who riot in Paris. Thats business as usual. But they are very very afraid of these provincials. The last time these people mobilized politically the Republic collapsed. At the end of the Fourth.



At this time of year I get a few Christmas cards from France. The usual family stuff in them but often a throwaway comment too. But one from an elderly small town dweller - I love how they think in French and write in English
"...as you know France is facing a sad revolution..." then back to family stuff.


This really has been a very slow motion disaster. Playing out for close to 20 years. The real tragedy is that the financial crisis happened at the beginning of Sarkozys term, not the end. With different timing Sarkozy would have been able to push through the needed reforms. He was given just enough space by the other side to try to pull off a Mendes France. Now too late. And Macron has zero of the political skills of a Sarkozy or even a DSK. The only other guy who could have succeeded politically in pushing through the necessary reforms.

This is a very weird week. Everyone is holding their breath. Everyone is waiting to see what happen with "Act 4" this weekend. Given how politically tone deaf and behind the curve Macron has been so far its going to be interesting to see what the position of the presidential office is next Monday. This is not May '68. The Head of State double checks with the military that they will back him and then he orders the Place Beauvau to pick up all the leaders of the other side to keep them out of circulation while the situation winds down. With the gilet jaune there are no ring leaders to pick up. Plus its mostly at a local level and as they discovered in 2013 in Brittany the local police when push comes to shove will not move in these situations.

I see the eco twits are refusing to call of their "Climate Change" demo in Paris on Saturday. If the gilet jaune want to see who the real enemy is look no further than Nicolas Hulot and his lot. It will be very interesting to see if the casseurs decided to disrupt the "Climate Change" demo if it goes ahead. I would pay good money to see those smug sanctimonious bobos have the crap beaten out of them by the casseurs. In fact the casseurs beat the crap out of the ecos and the CRS beat the crap out of the casseurs would be the ideal outcome. A satisfying circle jerk of street violence.

Whatever happens I think there is a good chance the political map of France will be very different after this weekend. Interesting times. But in a very bad way. For La France Profonde and its people.


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 Post subject: Re: France, popular revolt (Yellow Vests) What's going on?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Posts: 1869
jmc wrote:
This really has been a very slow motion disaster. Playing out for close to 20 years. The real tragedy is that the financial crisis happened at the beginning of Sarkozys term, not the end. With different timing Sarkozy would have been able to push through the needed reforms. He was given just enough space by the other side to try to pull off a Mendes France. Now too late. And Macron has zero of the political skills of a Sarkozy or even a DSK. The only other guy who could have succeeded politically in pushing through the necessary reforms.


In your opinion what are the necessary reforms?


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