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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:35 am 
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Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Sep 13, 2012
Posts: 5465
"Molyneux knows how to talk like he knows what he's talking about, despite very little academic research."

Wikipedia quote.

I have no idea what Molyneux's lumbago has to do with the economics of UBI. He's a crank.

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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:22 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 1917
conork wrote:
Private companies are generally extremely productive and can restructure to suit the working environment as time changes/things progress. The people that work for these companies are the productive workers. The are not a liability on the public. Government bodies/socialism/welfare etc are all items that or non productive and an expense on the general public. These items are paid for by taxing the private sector - eg the productive economy.
The lower the amount of expenses on the general public, the more money can be diverted to productive businesses etc. The more productive an economy is the wealthier the residents become.


Wowsa. Thanks for helping me understand why some people freaked out about Obama's 'You didn't build that' speech (which was taken out of context, but still...). (Incidentally, he borrowed the gist of it from Elizabeth Warren)

To paraphrase, publicly-funded schools educated you and/or your staff; roads make distribution of goods possible; courts ensure rule-of-law; emergency services offer security, health..

Hard to believe this has to be spelled out.

I work in the private sector, by the way. I'm fierce productive except when distracted by people who are wrong on the internet.


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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Real Estate Developer

Joined: Jun 10, 2010
Posts: 889
Ixelles wrote:
conork wrote:
Private companies are generally extremely productive and can restructure to suit the working environment as time changes/things progress. The people that work for these companies are the productive workers. The are not a liability on the public. Government bodies/socialism/welfare etc are all items that or non productive and an expense on the general public. These items are paid for by taxing the private sector - eg the productive economy.
The lower the amount of expenses on the general public, the more money can be diverted to productive businesses etc. The more productive an economy is the wealthier the residents become.


Wowsa. Thanks for helping me understand why some people freaked out about Obama's 'You didn't build that' speech (which was taken out of context, but still...). (Incidentally, he borrowed the gist of it from Elizabeth Warren)

To paraphrase, publicly-funded schools educated you and/or your staff; roads make distribution of goods possible; courts ensure rule-of-law; emergency services offer security, health..

Hard to believe this has to be spelled out.

I work in the private sector, by the way. I'm fierce productive except when distracted by people who are wrong on the internet.


I never said these services are not required?

If I have the choice I would rather go to a private school, hospital etc. Why, because staff need to perform and are held accountable.
The most efficient way for these services to be provided is for government too act as an administrator and sub contract the services to private companies. The subbies will grow and shrink to suit demand. Reputation is important for companies.

Don't fool yourself in thinking you're not paying for these services. Half your salary is paying for public services. Imagine you could save that money and choose what school/hospital to send your kids etc.

Nothing more important than the productivity of an economy.

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Irving Fisher, economist, October 17, 1929 - "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau"
Gold and Economic Freedom by Alan Greenspan - 1966
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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Old Time Landlord

Joined: Jan 31, 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Middle Earth
Ixelles wrote:
conork wrote:
Private companies are generally extremely productive and can restructure to suit the working environment as time changes/things progress. The people that work for these companies are the productive workers. The are not a liability on the public. Government bodies/socialism/welfare etc are all items that or non productive and an expense on the general public. These items are paid for by taxing the private sector - eg the productive economy.
The lower the amount of expenses on the general public, the more money can be diverted to productive businesses etc. The more productive an economy is the wealthier the residents become.


Wowsa. Thanks for helping me understand why some people freaked out about Obama's 'You didn't build that' speech (which was taken out of context, but still...). (Incidentally, he borrowed the gist of it from Elizabeth Warren)

To paraphrase, publicly-funded schools educated you and/or your staff; roads make distribution of goods possible; courts ensure rule-of-law; emergency services offer security, health..

Hard to believe this has to be spelled out.

I work in the private sector, by the way. I'm fierce productive except when distracted by people who are wrong on the internet.


Maybe it's more of a small/big government argument ? Some things have to be publicly funded and managed (Police, Defence Forces, Courts, Oireachtas,....) but we choose to do this with many other things like hospitals, schools, roads (mostly),... Waste collection is an example of what was once publicly funded and is now private. My electricity bill is smaller now because it's generation and billing is in the private sector - no?

Public sector has extreme inertia - look at collection of road tax and all the physical offices still staffed to post out little pieces of paper that Gardai must check - could simply be replaced with standing orders including the car registration in the meta data, this is collated into a database that ANPR can police and or an app for a Guard with a smartphone.

We need a public sector, no argument. But do we need one as big as the one we have?


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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Holiday Home Owner

Joined: Sep 9, 2017
Posts: 335
Quote:
In the so-called fourth industrial revolution - characterised by technologies such as robotics, artificial intelligence, biotechnology and 3D printing - workers may not be able to “seamlessly” move to new jobs, nor will many be able to afford to retire in response, Mr Carney warned.
Frictions in labour markets, especially “skills mismatches”, may lead to depressed sectors of the economy and an increase in inequality in this period, before the likely productivity gains can begin to compensate.
Unlike in previous industrial revolutions, the types of jobs that could be affected this time “lie across the entire spectrum of wages”, he said, placing the proportion of jobs at risk of automation in Britain and Ireland at 10-15 per cent.
“Obviously, this is a rough estimate.”


It is not the role of central banks to either prevent or accelerate this expected structural change in the labour market, Mr Carney added, but they do need to acknowledge it when they consider their approach to monetary policy.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/bank-of-england-governor-mark-carney-assume-things-will-go-wrong-1.3629205

Governor of the Bank of England flags up this agenda quite regularly now. Including this in today's Dublin speech after his Mansion house speech earlier in the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:52 am 
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Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 2990
Location: Oighearland
those left behind the computerization of their industry, fear NOT.

the govt will expand the NGO sector as controlled opposition and/or facilitaors of nasty dehumanizing legislation to offer everyone a job.

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 Post subject: Re: Universal Basic Income - Who Pays?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:05 am 
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Nationalised

Joined: Nov 6, 2006
Posts: 9010
Location: Hollywood


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