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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:56 pm 
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There's a meme that I'm particularly fond of that I can't find at the moment . It goes along the lines of -
There is a plate with 20 cookies on it, the banker takes 19 and points at the 20th and says 'Oh look the immigrant is trying to steal your cookie'

People are more important than borders or countries. Borders are used by the wealthy to protect their wealth and to arbitrage taxes and currencies. People are following wealth and escaping the destitution caused by the theft of their nations wealth by those accumulating it in the 'developed' countries (and I include those of their own countrypeople who stole their wealth and stashed it in our banks)

The problem is not immigration - it is inequality.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:52 am 
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It's a funny auld world.
Image

Syrian woman giving food and clothes to Greek immigrants (refugees) in 1942.

Edit to emphasis the common conflation of terms.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:34 am 
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This discussion gets more confused when people use terms interchangeably.
Migrant = Refugee = Economic migrant = Asylum seeker
Mass Migration = Migration = Immigration

BBC wrote some good articles on this.

The battle over the words used to describe migrants
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34061097

Asylum seekers, migrants or refugees: Which word is correct?
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46747502

Also, populist emotional appeals also tend to polarize the discussion and make this topic difficult to discuss and causes more confusion.

[IMHO, that's fine for some, since in maintains the status quo.]


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:36 am 
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catbear wrote:
Syrian woman giving food and clothes to Greek refugees in 1942.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_Syria
Quote:
The Greek presence in Syria began in the 7th century BC and became more prominent during the Hellenistic period and when the Seleucid Empire was centered there. Today, there is a Greek community of about 4,500 in Syria, most of whom have Syrian nationality and who live mainly in Aleppo (the country's main trading and financial centre), Baniyas, Tartous , and Damascus, the capital.


Since there are only about 4500 Greeks in Syria today it seems millions of "Greek refugees" didn't settle in Syria or the Middle East in the 1940s, so why should we allow millions of Syrians just walk into Europe today ?

metalmike wrote:
The problem is not immigration - it is inequality.

No, the problem is too much immigration at a time when almost all European populations are shrinking, your failure to understand demographics of this is leading you astray

It only takes a generation or two before a mismatch in birth rates and excessive immigration can totally transform a country, at this point anyone who doubts it is a fool, but of course the people pushing this agenda hardest know it well

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Last edited by the dude on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:50 am 
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the dude wrote:
No, the problem is too much immigration at a time when almost all European populations are shrinking, your failure to understand demographics of this is leading you astray

Are you talking about immigration or refugees?

Demographics suggests that in the near future western economies will be competing against eachother for the refugees, whoops sorry, should that be immigrant?

Japan has already given up fighting their agequake.

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:10 am 
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"western economies will be competing against each other for (skilled) immigrant workers" This statement is probably true. Your original statement is imo propaganda.

It's called a brain drain.

"Japan has already given up fighting their age quake." Japans problems are as a consequence of their post ww2 banking system with its boom, bust and stagnation.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:19 am 
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catbear wrote:
the dude wrote:
No, the problem is too much immigration at a time when almost all European populations are shrinking, your failure to understand demographics of this is leading you astray

Are you talking about immigration or refugees?


I don't see much difference any more, its clear that most refugees are just economic migrants anyway, the media and the open boarders people just use the word refugess as propaganda

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:27 am 
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catbear wrote:
Demographics suggests that in the near future western economies will be competing against eachother for the refugees, whoops sorry, should that be immigrant?


They will yeah, whats the unemployment rate for "Syrians" in Germany ?

The FT says its 40% but I would bet its far higher, the Germans will never make an economic return on their "Syrian" population and the social problems will only increase

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:37 am 
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the dude wrote:
catbear wrote:
Demographics suggests that in the near future western economies will be competing against eachother for the refugees, whoops sorry, should that be immigrant?


They will yeah, whats the unemployment rate for "Syrians" in Germany ?

The FT says its 40% but I would bet its far higher, the Germans will never make an economic return on their "Syrian" population and the social problems will only increase

Well that's because they're displaced people, refugees. Immigrants, and I am one myself go to engage an economic need.

I don't know why people who flee war in Syria are branded immigrants.

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Every single frozen corpse in the Death Zone on Everest was once a highly motivated person.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:15 pm 
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immigrant: a person who comes (by choice) to live permanently in a foreign country.

A refugee, generally speaking, is a displaced person who has been forced to cross national boundaries and who cannot return home safely.

IMHO, once conditions return to normal. Refugees who have been granted asylum should be assisted in returning to their countries of origin. If this doesn't occur then a refugee effectively becomes an immigrant.

There are I think very good reasons for keeping the asylum process separate from the immigration process. There are also ideological, political and financial reasons why some special interest groups seek to blur the boundaries between these processes.


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