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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:25 am 
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There is nothing about criticism of migration being prohibited in the document being signed in Marrakesh, which is not legally binding in any event.

But it was an extraordinary statement from an EU spokesman to reveal this intent. They must be using it to test the waters out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:43 am 
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And another view
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1 ... 6555024384


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:49 am 
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From the tanaiste, linked in opening post

Quote:
we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction


Put two and two together, at the very least it's an unnecessary step to silencing debate. Very undemocratic in nature


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:58 am 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
From the tanaiste, linked in opening post

Quote:
we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction


Put two and two together, at the very least it's an unnecessary step to silencing debate. Very undemocratic in nature


Keyword = we
Define "we":

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
From the tanaiste, linked in opening post

Quote:
we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction


Put two and two together, at the very least it's an unnecessary step to silencing debate. Very undemocratic in nature


If his intent is to suppress debate then it is dangerous as well as undemocratic, on the other hand if he wants to shape inward migration so that people arriving are integrated and included then perhaps it is positive but the usual path is funding for quangos or NGO's to produce reports with liberal leanings as fodder for press releases and this is probably all that will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:01 pm 
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owenm wrote:
Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:
From the tanaiste, linked in opening post

Quote:
we do need to manage it carefully so we don't allow the politics of migration to play a big part in Irish politics because I think it pulls us down a dangerous direction


Put two and two together, at the very least it's an unnecessary step to silencing debate. Very undemocratic in nature


If his intent is to suppress debate then it is dangerous as well as undemocratic, on the other hand if he wants to shape inward migration so that people arriving are integrated and included then perhaps it is positive but the usual path is funding for quangos or NGO's to produce reports with liberal leanings as fodder for press releases and this is probably all that will happen.


Method.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Open Window wrote:
Is it true that the UN Pact on replacement migration seeks to criminalise any criticism of migration?



Its not binding, but it puts the wind in the sails of the government and NGOs efforts to push for more and more regular migration, implement hate crime and hate speech laws, to get the government to progandise against "counter speech" and tell journos to toe the line by defunding right wing media. I suppose the main aim is to demoralise opposition to replacement level migration. Piles of countries are not signing. When the European elections are over we'll see a lot more resistance to this nonsense(of course not in Ireland as most people are moral nihilists here).

PS: Love to see a study on the number of houses people are renting out to migrants and their attitude to inward migration. :x


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:23 am 
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A recent oldie but a goldie, for the record:

Here we see Simon Covney a couple of years ago (and possibly since) continuing the Fine Gael family tradition of of attending Bilderberg conference (normally in secret or any form the public eye) while as a Government minister with his Bilderberger pal (and mentor?) former Attonery General, Chairman of Goldman Sachs and Fine Gael'er Peter Sutherland (deceased).

Politicians have resigned for less in other countries.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:08 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Epicurus wrote:
There is nothing about criticism of migration being prohibited in the document being signed in Marrakesh, which is not legally binding in any event.

But it was an extraordinary statement from an EU spokesman to reveal this intent. They must be using it to test the waters out there.


Oh yes there was..

Quote:
OBJECTIVE 17: Eliminate all forms of discrimination and promote evidence-based public
discourse to shape perceptions of migration

33. We commit to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and
manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance
against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law. We further commit to
promote an open and evidence-based public discourse on migration and migrants in partnership
with all parts of society, that generates a more realistic, humane and constructive perception in
this regard. We also commit to protect freedom of expression in accordance with international
law, recognizing that an open and free debate contributes to a comprehensive understanding
of all aspects of migration.

To realize this commitment, we will draw from the following actions:

a) Enact, implement or maintain legislation that penalizes hate crimes and aggravated hate
crimes targeting migrants, and train law enforcement and other public officials to identify,
prevent and respond to such crimes and other acts of violence that target migrants, as well
as to provide medical, legal and psychosocial assistance for victims

b) Empower migrants and communities to denounce any acts of incitement to violence
directed towards migrants by informing them of available mechanisms for redress, and
ensure that those who actively participate in the commission of a hate crime targeting
migrants are held accountable, in accordance with national legislation, while upholding
international human rights law, in particular the right to freedom of expression

c) Promote independent, objective and quality reporting of media outlets, including internetbased
information, including by sensitizing and educating media professionals on
migration-related issues and terminology, investing in ethical reporting standards and
advertising, and stopping allocation of public funding or material support to media outlets
that systematically promote intolerance, xenophobia, racism and other forms of
discrimination towards migrants, in full respect for the freedom of the media

d) Establish mechanisms to prevent, detect and respond to racial, ethnic and religious profiling
of migrants by public authorities, as well as systematic instances of intolerance,
xenophobia, racism and all other multiple and intersecting forms of discrimination in
partnership with National Human Rights Institutions, including by tracking and publishing
trends analyses, and ensuring access to effective complaint and redress mechanisms

e) Provide migrants, especially migrant women, with access to national and regional
complaint and redress mechanisms with a view to promoting accountability and addressing
governmental actions related to discriminatory acts and manifestations carried out against
migrants and their families

f) Promote awareness-raising campaigns targeted at communities of origin, transit and
destination in order to inform public perceptions regarding the positive contributions of safe,
orderly and regular migration, based on evidence and facts, and to end racism, xenophobia
and stigmatization against all migrants

g) Engage migrants, political, religious and community leaders, as well as educators and
service providers to detect and prevent incidences of intolerance, racism, xenophobia, and
other forms of discrimination against migrants and diasporas and support activities in local
communities to promote mutual respect, including in the context of electoral campaigns


https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/sites/default/files/180711_final_draft_0.pdf

This is pretty much what has been implemented in Germany and the German Ministry of the Interior has taken a pretty draconian interpenetration of what is "hate speech". Basically saying the mass migration of unassimilatable people is a bad idea, no mention of actual violence, is considered "incitement" and prosecuted as such. Thats why Facebook et al now has on site censors to implement these laws. Read between the lines in this story and that will be the future for all EU countries.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/free-speech-german-court-overturns-facebook-censorship/23581834.html?ticket=ST-14580936-7qM1qvvyZccvOByiUXai-ap3

These are the new blasphemy laws. Enforced by your political masters.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:08 pm 
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jmc wrote:
Thats why Facebook et al now has on site censors to implement these laws. Read between the lines in this story and that will be the future for all EU countries.

Then why I am getting suggestions for Tony Robinson fan pages when I open my Facebook page in the UK but not in Ireland?

Facebook will take whoevers money comes their way.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:31 pm 
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catbear wrote:
jmc wrote:
Thats why Facebook et al now has on site censors to implement these laws. Read between the lines in this story and that will be the future for all EU countries.

Then why I am getting suggestions for Tony Robinson fan pages when I open my Facebook page in the UK but not in Ireland?

Facebook will take whoevers money comes their way.


Because neither the UK nor Ireland has enacted the EU directive yet. The directive based on the German law was passed about a year ago so in a few years will probably start being "enforced" in Ireland. Given the nature of these beasts. A lot of online content and discussion has disappeared in Germany over the last year expect the same in Ireland within the next five years if the legal status quo remains.


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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:56 pm 
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jmc wrote:
catbear wrote:
jmc wrote:
Thats why Facebook et al now has on site censors to implement these laws. Read between the lines in this story and that will be the future for all EU countries.

Then why I am getting suggestions for Tony Robinson fan pages when I open my Facebook page in the UK but not in Ireland?

Facebook will take whoevers money comes their way.


Because neither the UK nor Ireland has enacted the EU directive yet. The directive based on the German law was passed about a year ago so in a few years will probably start being "enforced" in Ireland. Given the nature of these beasts. A lot of online content and discussion has disappeared in Germany over the last year expect the same in Ireland within the next five years if the legal status quo remains.


I think in five years "oh yeah, I had a Facebook page once" will be an oft heard remark.

It inevitable that FB face the same liability standards as established media. I'm suprised it hasn't happened sooner, although that's just probably a generational lag, like the Japanese Cyber Security minister who doesn't use computers!

Quote:
In Parliament on Wednesday, however, he said he does not use computers. "Since the age of 25, I have instructed my employees and secretaries, so I don't use computers myself," he said in a response to an opposition question.

He also appeared confused by the question when asked whether USB drives were in use at Japanese nuclear facilities.

His comments were met with incredulity by opposition lawmakers. "It's unbelievable that someone who has not touched computers is responsible for cyber-security policies," said opposition lawmaker Masato Imai.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/japan ... -computers

In one way that's why I can understand the popularity of Trump, he's not ashamed of his befuddlement.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Stay on topic. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Tánaiste Simon Covney Confirms 500,000 migrants for Irel
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Blindjustice BATONEFFECT wrote:

As is to be expected, he didn't answer the question. He droned on and on for 5 minutes but avoided saying anything so I think that tells you all you need to know about what the Govt's thinking on this UN agreement is


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