Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Republic of Property

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 21  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:55 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 2175
Location: Dublin
Special mention to the Pin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:01 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 4, 2013
Posts: 17336
Location: To the right of the decimal place
Nice!

_________________
— Try, fail, understand, win. —


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:13 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
"If Liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear" .
George Orwell

Long live the PIN !

* * * * * *

P.S. bit too rich on the imagery there Max (we're Irish too) !


Last edited by observer35 on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:51 pm 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: May 3, 2007
Posts: 11976
FreeFallin wrote:
Mary Mitchell O'connor is so far out of her depth, it's scary. She has to be the worst appointment as Minister ever. I'm surprised FG HQ allowed an article out under her name


I would agree with that. If Journalists start to pepper Mary with questions about MNCs and Corporate Tax Policy at her myriad photo opps with a whos who of techs and med device companies we are truly goosed. I think Bruton has to come back sharpish. :(

_________________
SEO Ireland. SEO Dublin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:35 am 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 7093
Quote:
Mr Moscovici yesterday defended the ruling, saying it was “in the general interest of people, ordinary people, people who have been pressurised during the crisis, paid a lot of their money” and who now don’t understand how multinationals were allowed to take advantage of specific tax regimes or agreements in some countries.

“It’s fighting tax evasion, it’s fighting tax fraud, it’s acting for the ordinary people in France, the Netherlands, in Germany, in Ireland who cannot stand that they pay their taxes and that multinationals don’t pay their fair share of taxes.”

Speaking to RTÉ’s This Week radio programme, Mr Moscovici said: “We had a debate here and Michael Noonan intervened in the Ecofin saying that he is going, of course, to defend the Irish case in front of the court. We, of course, won’t have the same position.

“But he is going to go on co-operating with the EU with the commission and with the framework of our common initiatives.”

Mr Moscovici also made the argument for a more open tax regime among member states and voiced support for increased tax harmonisation across Europe, an issue which was discussed over the weekend.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eu ... 20532.html

_________________
“Don't ask the barber if you need a haircut—and don’t ask an academic if what he does is relevant.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:55 am 
Offline
Too Big to Fail

Joined: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 3024
Location: The Second Æther! Hull Breach Imminent, Eschaton Immanent...
FreeFallin wrote:
Mary Mitchell O'connor is so far out of her depth, it's scary. She has to be the worst appointment as Minister ever. I'm surprised FG HQ allowed an article out under her name

She's definitely one of the worst.
Sweary Mary (Coughlan) might have been even worse?
And for pure negative impact (i.e. negative results, not just potential), Brian Lenihan is way up there.

But MMOC is very very limited, and I'd imagine is targeted by various corporate affairs outfits on that basis.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:35 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Mary Mitchell O'connor is so far out of her depth, it's scary. She has to be the worst appointment as Minister ever. I'm surprised FG HQ allowed an article out under her name

She's definitely one of the worst.
Sweary Mary (Coughlan) might have been even worse?
And for pure negative impact (i.e. negative results, not just potential), Brian Lenihan is way up there.

But MMOC is very very limited, and I'd imagine is targeted by various corporate affairs outfits on that basis.

As bad as she is, she has sat at the Cabinet table and heard all of the Noonan / DOF / AG discussion on Apple. She also got a copy of the 130 page EU ruling. And this is what she writes. Shows how mis-led / badly informed even the Irish Cabinet are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:04 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Image

More from the always interesting Finfacts.ie site (if his site was easier to read and less cluttered, it would be the even more useful; some very good analysis and data on it re Ireland, that you don't get in other media)

FINFACTS: Irish Venture Capital in 2016 - More Leprachaun Economics
http://www.finfacts.ie/Irish_finance_news/articleDetail.php?Irish-venture-capital-in-2016-more-Leprechaun-Economics-703

As with Noonan's dodgy deal on Apple blowing our 2015 GDP up by 26%, in return for taking on up to €380m in extra annual EU GDP levies, I wonder if all of these smaller deals are paying their EU GDP levy cost of 0.25%?

i.e. If a €100m in equity deal, is "housed" in Ireland, that is c €250,000 p.a. extra in EU GDP levies for Ireland. It would be pretty stupid if the deal was paying c €100,000 p.a. in Irish advisor fees for their Irish tax avoidance post-box (on Sir John Rogerson's Quay), and the State was still paying more in EU levies?

* * * * * *

There used to be an Irish Department of Finance argument (doctrine), that artificially boosting Irish GDP (even if we loose all dirct economic benefit from paying extra EU GDP levies), is still worth it as it reduces Irish borrowing costs. However, with Irish Bond yields largely divorced from Irish fundamentals (solely driven by ECB activity)m AND almost at 0% anyway, this arguement would no longer appear to hold up. I wonder if the DOF watch this?


Last edited by observer35 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:43 pm 
Offline
Property Magnate

Joined: Aug 5, 2012
Posts: 630
Col. Max Pyatnitski wrote:
FreeFallin wrote:
Mary Mitchell O'connor is so far out of her depth, it's scary. She has to be the worst appointment as Minister ever. I'm surprised FG HQ allowed an article out under her name

She's definitely one of the worst.
Sweary Mary (Coughlan) might have been even worse?
And for pure negative impact (i.e. negative results, not just potential), Brian Lenihan is way up there.

But MMOC is very very limited, and I'd imagine is targeted by various corporate affairs outfits on that basis.


Heres a revelation.
I had a family member was a member of FG many moons ago.
Hes not too bright - was more of the table-thumping type than anything - but he was a paid up member and a reliable 'believer' (in as far as he understood what was going on).

What shocked the family was that he was asked to stand in a few no-hoper SCD constituencys in the early 90s.
(edit - he was aware of this but was promised a 'good' constituency as if he sucked a few lemons first...)
The family were shocked because he was obviously running a deficit in the 'understanding the debate department'.
Nonetheless he was pursued until family members persuaded him otherwise.
The conclusion was that FG 'pick their men well'.
Hayes would be another one that falls into that category - and another I have experience of - a complete moron, but blindly loyal and can throw shapes convincingly.

On a completely unrelated note a farming family from Meath might be far, far brighter (and much, much more arrogant) than you might imagine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:37 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
John Bruton proving his understanding of Apple Tax is one step removed from Mary Mitchell O'Connor.

I always thought Fine Gael would roll out John Bruton for their Section 110 scandal, but perhaps based on his Apple Tax article, John's better days are behind him and his mind is elsewhere.

IRISH INDEPENDENT: Any company could have secured the same kind of deal, John Bruton
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/apple-simply-applied-irish-tax-laws-at-the-time-any-company-could-have-secured-the-same-kind-of-deal-35043970.html

Let's go through the flaws in this (you will know yourself if you read the first two posts on this thread)

0. "Any Company could have secured the same deal". Almost comical statement, unless all of Corporate Ireland was simtaneously too stupid to copy this (and avoid all Irish taxes).

1. "The Government never selected Apple for this subsidy". Correct John, Apple demanded it.

2. "The Irish Revenue act independently of Government". Does any Irish person believe this?

3. "[Revenue] They hold themselves to a high standard of objectivity and integrity". Decades of tribunals (with no prosecutions) right up to the recent Section 110 scandal (where Revenue have been shown to be fiddling with their own anti-avoidance laws to help vultures), means this has as much credibility as 2. above. If in doubt, ask this guy.

Michael Lowry (ex. Fine Gael, and John Bruton loyalist, still not prosecuted)
Image

4. "The Commission Ruling ..... creates uncertainty for other Companies". Only the dodgy ones John. Microsoft and IBM are next.

5. "May encourage companies to incorporate outside the EU". Have a good read of the EU TP System manual John. There is a reason why the Apple tax scam doesn't work from the Cayman Islands etc. The EU have more belief in themselves than Ireland, and do insist that MNCs who want to sell into their valuable markets, follow the rules (just like in the US). Only Ireland believes that every foreigner (MNC and Vulture), should be 100% tax free. That is why Ireland had the GDP per capita of a 1st world country, but the public services of a 2nd world country. A system you helped design John.

6. "The Commission decision .... attempts to change the way profits can be distributed .... for taxation purposes". No John, Apple changed the way its profits are distributed by using a dodgy IP scam in Ireland (to trap profits away from EU and US) and a dodgy Revenue ruling (which gave them "offshore" status while still legally in Ireland).

7. "Previously Companies could get authoritive guidance from National Tax authorities". They still can John, but if the Company and Tax Authority are colluding to abuse the international tax system, then they will still be open to prosecution by the EU.

* * * * * *

The rest of the article is "faux concern" for the EU Commission who John fears will be weighed down with Companies checking other private rulings (only the legitimate ones I suspect), and deflected from the real issues. However, I can't imagine that there are more important objectives for the EU Commission then challenging the biggest tax avoidance scheme in modern economic history.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:26 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Michael O'Leary trying to outdo Mary Mitchell O'Connor for Apple Tax Stupidity

After John Bruton above, they seem to be lining up to out do Mary Mitchell O'Connor for stupidity re Apple Tax.
(MMO'C discussed here http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=890620#p890620)

IRISH INDEPENDENT: Michael O'Leary, Ireland should just threaten to leave the EU over Apple Tax
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ne ... 48171.html

Just when I thought nobody could outdo the stupidity of Mary Mitchell O'Connor's article ("if they were only here for the low taxes, they could have gone to the Cayman"), O'Leary proves that he is certainly not an expert on everything.

People who have read the first two posts on this thread will understand the stupidity of Michael's article.
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66347

More "Leprauchan Economics" lessons for you Michael....

Image


Last edited by observer35 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:58 am 
Offline
Nationalised
User avatar

Joined: Jan 1, 1970
Posts: 22945
Discussion continues of who voted for the EU what and why etc etc. here - viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66388

_________________
Follow The Pin - https://twitter.com/dailypinster

"Politicians are always realistically maneuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers." - Buckminster Fuller

"I was comfortable with a couple of banks being married today, instead i wake up and find I'm married to the banks." - Catbear

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:54 pm 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Japanese Revenue show how "amateur" Apple's Irish IP scam is (and why it is going to speed up Ireland getting the €19bn).

Image

As discussed at length at in the first post of this report, one of Margrethe Vesgater's "grenades" (and there are several), is showing other EU Revenues that Apple was, according to the Irish Revenue, remitting cash to a "stateless" entity that sits outside the EU TP System with no EU tax treaty. As I showed, this could cost Apple over €60bn (not €19bn), and is why Apple are going to beg us to take the €19bn

("we messed up, Apple Ireland was always a fully "onshore" Irish resident company", future statement from Tim C(r)ook).

Interesting article in Irish Times re Japanese Revenue, who have discovered that Apple Japan "forgot" to pay Withholding Tax on their "transfer" to Ireland (any readers of my Section 110 Vulture Fund scandal thread, will understand how critical avoiding Irish Withholding Tax is to Vultures). I forgot Withholding Tax re Apple's tax scam. It is another nail in Apple's coffin, as given Apple Ireland was "stateless" (according to our Revenue), it was therefore outside the EU Withholding Tax net (ouch !). This almost guarantees that Apple would incur full EU local taxes in each country, UNLESS it can prove that the Irish Revenue was wrong (ouch !), and Apple Ireland ("ASI") was really fully Irish resident, all along.

Get ready for our €19bn Christmas present, I don't think Apple is going to be waiting 6 years for it's EU appeal to settle it !!

IRISH TIMES: Apple fined in Japan for under-reporting earnings sent to Ireland
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/apple-fined-in-japan-for-under-reporting-earnings-sent-to-ireland-1.2793469?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Ftechnology%2Fapple-fined-in-japan-for-under-reporting-earnings-sent-to-ireland-1.2793469


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:36 am 
Offline
Under CAB Investigation

Joined: Apr 30, 2013
Posts: 1648
Back at you Michael O'Leary

After O'Leary showing that his understanding of Apple Tax is about as good as Mary Mitchell O'Connor's driving ....

Michael O'Leary trying to outdo Mary Mitchell O'Connor for Apple Tax Stupidity
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=891208#p891208

We now have the EU (humorously) turning the table back on us ....

IRISH TIMES: German MEP and satirist demands Ireland’s ejection from EU on Apple tax
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/german-mep-and-satirist-demands-ireland-s-ejection-from-eu-on-apple-tax-1.2792494

Which (finally) gets a response from Leo Varadkar ....

IRISH TIMES: Michael O’Leary’s Apple remarks ‘like throwing a grenade’
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/michael-o-leary-s-apple-remarks-like-throwing-a-grenade-1.2794230

.... who himself, is no stranger to the Dublin IFSC "tax haven" circuit.

Turlough Galvin, Head of Tax Group in Dublin Law Firm, Matheson (2nd largest in Dublin)
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?p=887428#p887428


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apple, Ireland, EU, Tax Avoidance, Margrethe Vestager, C
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:53 pm 
Offline
Of Systemic Importance

Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 7093
The US plots revenge on the EU...

Quote:
Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) said it would fight a $14 billion demand from the U.S. Department of Justice to settle claims it missold mortgage-backed securities, a shock bill that raises questions about the future of Germany's largest lender.

The claim against Deutsche, which is likely to trigger several months of talks, far exceeds the bank's expectations that the DoJ would be looking for a figure of only up to 3 billion euros ($3.4 billion).

The demand adds to the problems facing Deutsche Bank's Chief Executive John Cryan, a Briton who has been in the job for a year.

The bank only scraped through European stress tests in July and has warned it may need deeper cost cuts to turn itself around after revenue fell sharply in the second quarter due to challenging markets and low interest rates.

Deutsche Bank shares, which have lost around half their value this year, tumbled 7.6 percent to 12.10 euros in Frankfurt on Friday, with analysts saying the bank may need to raise fresh funds from investors or sell assets to shore up its capital ratios.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-deuts ... SKCN11L2VQ

_________________
“Don't ask the barber if you need a haircut—and don’t ask an academic if what he does is relevant.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  [Go to page]   Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 21  Next

    Board index » The IRISH PROPERTY BUBBLE » The Republic of Property

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: woger and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  

Click for Latest Posts LATEST POSTS Click for Forum List FORUMS

Click for Latest PostsFollow, Retweet @dailypinster

- Pyramid Built, Is Better Built!