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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:19 pm 
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johnp002 wrote:

Certainly there are lots of net beneficiaries of the policies enacted by government but I don't think any government really has a direct agenda to propagate advantage in a small section of the population. It seems far more likely that politicians just enact policies that are either in their own personal interest or are in the interest of lobbyists who contribute to them through various means. Where the interests of politicians and lobbyists intersect with the interests of a demographic of urban property owners those property owners will be advantaged but this is purely coincidental.
Any interaction with authority that I have had supports the view that the actions taken by government are a chaotic set of reactions to self-interest and expediency rather than steps to advance a coherent master plan of class warfare.



My own guess is that the government is doing everything it can to increase property prices.
This has a number of 'benefits' for them.

1. It improves the bank balance sheets, as it lifts bad mortgages out of negative equity.
This is good when you're selling AIB.

2. Lifting people out of negative equity is good for chasing votes.

3. Higher prices lead to increased sales revenue from NAMA.

4. A lot of politicians are landlords. The self-interest gene, as you mentioned.

There are a lot of 'winners' in higher prices.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:22 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
johnp002 wrote:

Certainly there are lots of net beneficiaries of the policies enacted by government but I don't think any government really has a direct agenda to propagate advantage in a small section of the population. It seems far more likely that politicians just enact policies that are either in their own personal interest or are in the interest of lobbyists who contribute to them through various means. Where the interests of politicians and lobbyists intersect with the interests of a demographic of urban property owners those property owners will be advantaged but this is purely coincidental.
Any interaction with authority that I have had supports the view that the actions taken by government are a chaotic set of reactions to self-interest and expediency rather than steps to advance a coherent master plan of class warfare.



My own guess is that the government is doing everything it can to increase property prices.
This has a number of 'benefits' for them.

1. It improves the bank balance sheets, as it lifts bad mortgages out of negative equity.
This is good when you're selling AIB.

2. Lifting people out of negative equity is good for chasing votes.

3. Higher prices lead to increased sales revenue from NAMA.

4. A lot of politicians are landlords. The self-interest gene, as you mentioned.

There are a lot of 'winners' in higher prices.


and people spend more in the broader economy when they have equity in their property (sorry renters) though it's obviously unsustainable long term


Last edited by slasher on Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:08 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Is there any mathematician on here who can work out how many posts on average it takes for Sinn Fein being blamed for something. Like you're only ever 10 feet from a rat or something. It's gas actually, all these people who think Ireland "needs new thinking", but they return to default "Sinn Blaming" instinctively no matter what.



Where has anyone mentioned sinn fein ?


A lengthy post about Sinn Fein and holiday homes appeared and disappeared. Or else I imagined it.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:59 am 
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GameBlame wrote:
mr_anderson wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Is there any mathematician on here who can work out how many posts on average it takes for Sinn Fein being blamed for something. Like you're only ever 10 feet from a rat or something. It's gas actually, all these people who think Ireland "needs new thinking", but they return to default "Sinn Blaming" instinctively no matter what.

Where has anyone mentioned sinn fein ?

A lengthy post about Sinn Fein and holiday homes appeared and disappeared. Or else I imagined it.

There you go then. It takes 18 posts before someone either blames Sinn Féin for something or someone imagines they did. :wink:

Btw, what's "new" about SF's thinking? Das Kapital is 150 years old this year.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:23 am 
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Coles2 wrote:
Planning and Development (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 2017
The 'don't use it, don't lose it' bill. It allows 10-12 year old planning permissions to be extended further with no pressure on the land owner or developer to actually build.


Take the counterfactual. That all boom-era planning permissions had been allowed to lapse after the normal 5 years.

This would mean developers being obliged to re-apply for the same developments that were granted permission in 2007 but never built. This would add a lot of time and expense to the process and would be seized on as more evidence of the gubbermint getting in the way of houses being built, etc, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:16 am 
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Receivers for the most part renewed planning permissions - any permission pre Aug 2007 has now expired.

For a small number of sites with post 2007 permission this legislation will negate the need to apply for new planning.

But hey the land hoarding line makes for a better story.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:21 am 
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Is the re-application a foregone conclusion (bar the time & expense) ?


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:44 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
mr_anderson wrote:
GameBlame wrote:
Is there any mathematician on here who can work out how many posts on average it takes for Sinn Fein being blamed for something. Like you're only ever 10 feet from a rat or something. It's gas actually, all these people who think Ireland "needs new thinking", but they return to default "Sinn Blaming" instinctively no matter what.

Where has anyone mentioned sinn fein ?

A lengthy post about Sinn Fein and holiday homes appeared and disappeared. Or else I imagined it.

There you go then. It takes 18 posts before someone either blames Sinn Féin for something or someone imagines they did. :wink:

Btw, what's "new" about SF's thinking? Das Kapital is 150 years old this year.


Ah here. What I mean as not "new" is some people being so used to instinctively blaming Sinn Fein that they get blamed for solar eclipses, STD outbreaks, queues on the M50 etc. You'd have to have seen the original post maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:50 pm 
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Skippy 3 wrote:
Coles2 wrote:
Planning and Development (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 2017
The 'don't use it, don't lose it' bill. It allows 10-12 year old planning permissions to be extended further with no pressure on the land owner or developer to actually build.


Take the counterfactual. That all boom-era planning permissions had been allowed to lapse after the normal 5 years.

This would mean developers being obliged to re-apply for the same developments that were granted permission in 2007 but never built. This would add a lot of time and expense to the process and would be seized on as more evidence of the gubbermint getting in the way of houses being built, etc, etc.


But to counter your counter factual, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. These "developers" aren't developing their extant renewed planning. So it's a policy failure. And it happens to help developers hoard and keep sites in the deep freeze


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 Post subject: Re: 'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:03 pm 
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mr_anderson wrote:
Is the re-application a foregone conclusion (bar the time & expense) ?

Assuming the land has not been rezoned, you will always get something. However the not in my backyard brigade will be out in force. A trip to ABP is to be expected.


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