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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:53 pm 
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It would also solve a lot of problems for the EU if Ireland left as well, especially when you consider the huge volume of IE-UK trade, relive to IE-EU trade.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:18 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
It would also solve a lot of problems for the EU if Ireland left as well, especially when you consider the huge volume of IE-UK trade, relive to IE-EU trade.

I dont think members leaving "helps" the EU

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Brexiteers are a dying breed according to this BBC video,
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics- ... -dying-out

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"Democracy is like sausage, you want it, but you don't want to know how it is made". [John Godfrey Saxe]
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:22 pm 
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werpen wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
It would also solve a lot of problems for the EU if Ireland left as well, especially when you consider the huge volume of IE-UK trade, relive to IE-EU trade.

I dont think members leaving "helps" the EU

It does when you consider that a lot of Irish thinking is closer to Boston than Berlin.

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"Democracy is like sausage, you want it, but you don't want to know how it is made". [John Godfrey Saxe]
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:41 am 
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dolanbaker wrote:
werpen wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
It would also solve a lot of problems for the EU if Ireland left as well, especially when you consider the huge volume of IE-UK trade, relive to IE-EU trade.

I dont think members leaving "helps" the EU

It does when you consider that a lot of Irish thinking is closer to Boston than Berlin.


We joined the EU/EEC to stop being so interdependent on Britain, why on earth would we follow them out of one of the biggest trade areas in the world?


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:08 am 
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Anco_reeves wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
werpen wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
It would also solve a lot of problems for the EU if Ireland left as well, especially when you consider the huge volume of IE-UK trade, relive to IE-EU trade.

I dont think members leaving "helps" the EU

It does when you consider that a lot of Irish thinking is closer to Boston than Berlin.


We joined the EU/EEC to stop being so interdependent on Britain, why on earth would we follow them out of one of the biggest trade areas in the world?

But we joined at the same time to avoid losing the links we have with the UK.

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"Democracy is like sausage, you want it, but you don't want to know how it is made". [John Godfrey Saxe]
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:28 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
Anco_reeves wrote:

We joined the EU/EEC to stop being so interdependent on Britain, why on earth would we follow them out of one of the biggest trade areas in the world?

But we joined at the same time to avoid losing the links we have with the UK.

Back when Britain was over 80% of our export market, hovering around 12% now and likely to decline to single digits as their currency weakens.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:36 am 
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https://www.ft.com/content/1bd3b34a-f39 ... 65a6ce1a00 via @financialtimes

Quote:
UK in push to remain part of EU medicines agency

Britain is pushing to remain under EU regulation for medicines after Brexit, the latest sign ministers want to stay close to Europe in some sectors despite the bloc warning the UK cannot “cherry-pick” parts of the single market.

The move follows calls for the UK’s chemicals and aviation industries to continue to be regulated by EU agencies, keeping them within Europe’s standards and safety regime and under the auspices of the European Court of Justice.

Three senior government figures have told the Financial Times that the UK hopes to be regulated by the European Medicines Agency, even as the body moves from London’s Canary Wharf to a new post-Brexit home in Amsterdam.

Greg Clark, business secretary, is also backing demands from Britain’s chemicals sector to stay within the EU’s Chemicals Agency, while Chris Grayling, transport secretary, last month told the aviation industry Britain would continue to be regulated by the EU after Brexit.

The proposals would put parts of the British economy under the indirect jurisdiction of the ECJ, threatening to breach “red lines” set out by Theresa May in her October 2016 Tory conference speech.

But one government official said the ECJ “red line” had been blurred since the departure of Nick Timothy, Mrs May’s pro-Brexit former co-chief of staff, from Downing Street last June. “It’s not quite so rigid now,” the official said.

Pharma industry leaders have warned of the consequences for patients in both the UK and Europe if some form of regulatory harmonisation cannot be achieved. Around 45m packs of medicines are supplied from the UK to other European countries each month, while more than 37m packs come from Europe to the UK.


idiots.

All the propaganda about EU red tape is really biting them in the *ss


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:19 pm 
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It may be interesting to keep a running list of parts of the EU that the UK want to be part of.

I believe I've seen statements that the UK ministers want to stay in the following at the absolute minimum.

    European aviation and safety agency;
    Eurocontrol;
    European medical agency;
    Euro Chemical Agency;
    Interpol;
    Euratom;
    Erasmus

And the list is starting to grow rapidly.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:31 pm 
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The Curious One wrote:
It may be interesting to keep a running list of parts of the EU that the UK want to be part of.

I believe I've seen statements that the UK ministers want to stay in the following at the absolute minimum.

    European aviation and safety agency;
    Eurocontrol;
    European medical agency;
    Euro Chemical Agency;
    Interpol;
    Euratom;
    Erasmus

And the list is starting to grow rapidly.

So the UKs relationship with the EU goes from one of opt-outs when in to one of opt-ins when out!
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Great idea! They want to stay in Europol but may not be allowed.

The universities want to stay in the Framework Programme for Research & Innovation (currently in its eight incarnation known as Horizon 2020; 'FP9' is taking shape as we speak but it's hard to know whether the UK will be in or what the total budget will be if they don't contribute). It's not that far-fetched to leave the EU and be part of the research programme, provided you pay in (even Israel can get EU research grants along with valuable collaborations). UK has some great universities so it would be a loss all round if they go - but they'd need to sort it pronto. If you were putting together a consortium of, say, 8 research centres to apply for a five-year Horizon 2020 grant you might not bother with the UK until there is clarity on the post-Brexit situation.

There is also pressure on for the UK to stay in the CE marking scheme. Again, this is strongly in their interests but also in the interests of others. It's not just for toys and electronics, the CE mark is how MRI machines and stents are regulated. You can get a CE mark from Notified Bodies anywhere in Europe and, for some specialist areas in particular, the UK has very good NBs. If they leave, other European countries would have to beef up their NBs in areas like medical devices. At the same time, the UK would have to come up with its own version of the CE mark - wastefully duplicating admin tasks and adding to red tape for companies selling into England ('British Standards' marked) and Ireland, France and Belgium, for example (CE marked).

The Curious One wrote:
It may be interesting to keep a running list of parts of the EU that the UK want to be part of.

I believe I've seen statements that the UK ministers want to stay in the following at the absolute minimum.

    European aviation and safety agency;
    Eurocontrol;
    European medical agency;
    Euro Chemical Agency;
    Interpol;
    Euratom;
    Erasmus

And the list is starting to grow rapidly.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:47 pm 
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I think that if the EU had offered the UK an EEC style of membership, where standardisation and trade where the backbone with minimal political convergence on subjects like internal migration and the "EU Army", the brexit vote would have never happened.

Harmonisation of standards was one of the great success stories of the EEC.

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"Democracy is like sausage, you want it, but you don't want to know how it is made". [John Godfrey Saxe]
Ronald Coase, Nobel Economic Sciences, said in 1991 “If we torture the data long enough, it will confess.”
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild
"To be precise, my mistake. Humans are underrated": Elon Musk


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:11 pm 
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EU Budget Commissioner Günther Oettinger said the budget gap would have to be closed with 50% spending cuts and 50% fresh money. He suggested a Europe-wide tax on plastic products as a source of extra revenue. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42609057

Oi EU, leave our plastic alone


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:42 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:

Harmonisation of standards was one of the great success stories of the EEC.

Read somewhere recently, FT it think, about the Brussels effect, where non-EU producers adapt EU standards for their products even if they never even sell into the EU as it's increasingly recognised as a new global standard.

The UK becoming another third country, adhering to these standards will still nothing new for its producers if single market access isn't retained.

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Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do study history are doomed to watch everyone else repeating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:02 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
I think that if the EU had offered the UK an EEC style of membership, where standardisation and trade where the backbone with minimal political convergence on subjects like internal migration and the "EU Army", the brexit vote would have never happened.

Harmonisation of standards was one of the great success stories of the EEC.


A number of points. Firstly, Such a deal could never be offered to the UK because it is fundamentally not what the EEC was setup for. The EEC was fundamentally setup as a political union in Europe. This was never a secret and never hidden in any way. Quite the contrary, it was and is made openly clear.
The first clause, in the first sentence on the first line of the English version of the 1956 treaty of Rome which created the EEC makes this clear:

Quote:
DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of
Europe,


Secondly, even if this was not the case, how does one create Harmonization of standards without political convergence? In order for the standards to have any real relevance, the standards need to be backed up by law. Standards are enforced by EU law. In order for it to be practical in any way the law needs to be the same everywhere. Laws need to be passed by some type of political body. In the EU, that is the European Parliament which is directly elected and with legal judgements keep in sync by the ECJ. Without the political convergence there can be no harmonization of standards and regulations.

In terms of internal migration, again this was written into the core of the original Treaty of Rome EEC agreement which Britain freely joined.
Quote:
the abolition, as between Member States, of obstacles to freedom of movement for
persons, services and capital;


Finally, there is no "EU Army" and never has been. The Nice treaty largely forbids the creation of an EU Army. There can be an European Army that is separate from the EU but that contains the exact same member states as that of the EU, but that would be a totally separate beast all together.

Quote:
the brexit vote would have never happened.

Essentially what you are saying is that if Britain was not part of the EU then the brexit vote would never have happened.


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