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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:51 pm 
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There's a much easier to charge for km driven (regardless of vehicle type -- you could do it today for ICE cars). NCT already records odometer readings annually. Simply compute the road tax due at the time of NCT.

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:57 pm 
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Mantissa wrote:
There's a much easier to charge for km driven (regardless of vehicle type -- you could do it today for ICE cars). NCT already records odometer readings annually. Simply compute the road tax due at the time of NCT.

And every car would be clocked before the NCT

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:22 am 
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Surely there must be a way to fit a device to a vehicle showing how much Electricity it has used over period, then just charge a higher rate of tax for the corresponding amount of electricity used.


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:27 am 
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We only tax vehicle fuel indiscriminately because it's convenient to do so. A discriminating system would probably attempt to discourage congestion or attempt some other sort of behaviour change, but the most likely solution is the thing that requires the least technology to implement and provokes the least popular resistance.

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:10 pm 
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the dude wrote:
Thing Fish wrote:
thanks owenm for the responses.

But he has been wrong about pretty much everything

Thing Fish wrote:
The high speed chargers are the equivalent of powering 3 toasters, designing a power supply to even power eight toasters going at it full blast is not for the faint-hearted.

But its clearly not as hard as the naysayers claim, the video below shows the largest Tesla Supercharger in Norway, 20 stalls, China has a 50 stall charger, Tesla already have 8 stall Superchargers in Ireland, they must not be faint-hearted



Thing Fish wrote:
If we end up with 2 million electric vehicles then we need to have a power system that can deliver 6 GW of juice. the system demand at the moment is 5.2 GW http://ercrt.ucd.ie/

It will be a long time before we reach 2 million EVs on the road, it won't be a problem


I was wrong that Lithium ev's couldn't be made without cobalt, I stand corrected. They are however not as good as one's without. My other two points are still valid. Namely that subsidies and hidden costs don't make it cheaper and that burning carbon to produce electricity to charge batteries that push EV's doesn't reduce carbon footprint, or if it does then it is marginal and not a game changer. EV's do have a future but we won't all be driving Tesla's in 5 or even 50 years and have saved the planet unless cobalt free batteries are used and most of our electricity is from renewables.

It makes just as much sense to produce octane from renewable electricity and use that in an ICE, no grid upgrades or charging stations and less co2 from production and destruction of cars without batteries, but that's just blue sky thinking.
https://www.geek.com/news/german-compan ... 2-1609987/


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:14 pm 
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owenm wrote:
It makes just as much sense to produce octane from renewable electricity and use that in an ICE, no grid upgrades or charging stations and less co2 from production and destruction of cars without batteries, but that's just blue sky thinking.
https://www.geek.com/news/german-compan ... 2-1609987/


You think that burning natural gas in an efficient turbine to charge an EV is a bad idea but you support wasteful schemes like the one above, you clearly don't know what you're talking about

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:08 pm 
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the dude wrote:
owenm wrote:
It makes just as much sense to produce octane from renewable electricity and use that in an ICE, no grid upgrades or charging stations and less co2 from production and destruction of cars without batteries, but that's just blue sky thinking.
https://www.geek.com/news/german-compan ... 2-1609987/


You think that burning natural gas in an efficient turbine to charge an EV is a bad idea but you support wasteful schemes like the one above, you clearly don't know what you're talking about


Lets leave cost and everything else out of it and focus on the one thing we need to change to have a habitable planet in 100 years, Climate Change.

Putting sequestered carbon back into our atmosphere is the single first principle reason we have climate change. True or False?
Burning natural gas in an efficient turbine to charge an EV puts sequestered carbon back into our atmosphere. True or False?
The scheme I linked to, if commercialized, would cycle atmospheric carbon through ICE's and not add to atmospheric carbon. True or false?

The wasteful scheme as you call it, is really a research project and might actually be the answer if 1/10th of the R&D gone into EV's was made available to it, no? You put these new refineries beside the existing ones and you have your liquid distribution network in place for free, a tiny fraction of the grid upgrades, no charging points. You do however need the generation capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:53 pm 
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ps200306 wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
Eschatologist wrote:
Thing Fish wrote:
The cost of fuel for 200 km journey in an electric car is €5 , whereas for petrol its €20. Does anyone think that the taxes on petrol/diesel wont be transferred to electricity?

This is practically/politically difficult since there's no way to differentiate between different uses of electricity.

It makes more sense to apply the taxes to generation where the fuel sources can be discriminated.

With all the technology available and the fact that most EVs appear to have gps systems and internet connectivity, it's a simple move to log journeys and "road price" them.
Plus simple to to make it mandatory to install such tracking devices in all future vehicles.

I presume you're kidding. First you have to standardise them. Then you have to make them tamper proof. Then you have to deal with the civil liberties people screaming blue murder about trackability. Doable, maybe. Simple it definitely isn't.

Points one and two are easy, look at lorry tachographs as an example(very difficult to tamper with and get away with it), as for civil liberties, think mobile phone, your own personal tracking system happily carried around by the vast majority of users.
Simple it is!

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:02 pm 
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dolanbaker wrote:
Points one and two are easy, look at lorry tachographs as an example(very difficult to tamper with and get away with it), as for civil liberties, think mobile phone, your own personal tracking system happily carried around by the vast majority of users.
Simple it is!

1. Although the tacho requirements relate to the vehicle type rather than the use, driving an HGV is a job. We put all sorts of restrictions on people doing jobs that don't apply when doing the same activity on their own time.
2. Smartphones are opt-in.

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 Post subject: Re: why isn't electricity cheaper
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:17 pm 
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Eschatologist wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:
Points one and two are easy, look at lorry tachographs as an example(very difficult to tamper with and get away with it), as for civil liberties, think mobile phone, your own personal tracking system happily carried around by the vast majority of users.
Simple it is!

1. Although the tacho requirements relate to the vehicle type rather than the use, driving an HGV is a job. We put all sorts of restrictions on people doing jobs that don't apply when doing the same activity on their own time.
2. Smartphones are opt-in.

It's no different from fitting a tag to pay the tolls at the M50 and other toll gates, as for smart phones being opt in, you'll find that most people opt in to use the services provided and accept the tracking.
It would also be easy to flood the country with ANPR systems to track journeys for revenue collection purposes.

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Our whole economy is based on planned obsolescence, and anyone who can read without moving his lips should know it by now: Brooks Stevens.
Planned obsolescence, one of the largest contributors to the man made element of climate change, but the one least discussed: dolanbaker
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild


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