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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 pm 
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taipeir wrote:
And 51.8% is not greater numbers than ever seen before...Rubbish.

That's a common trope of their's relying on the fact that the turnout for the Brexit referendum was higher than for any previous poll. Ignoring the fact that in a time of consistent population growth you expect to see growth in the electorate and therefore growth in the absolute electoral turnout. It conveniently ignores percentage turnout.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Ian Dunt on the brexit white paper published today:

Quote:
To jumble up the Brexit jargon, it is cakeism-minus. They have a cake, they have eaten it, some of it is still magically on the plate, and the rest is being vomited up on the floor.
....
Quite quickly this descends into badly-written cyberpunk. "This could include exploring how machine learning and artificial intelligence could allow traders to automate the collection and submission of data required for customs declarations," it says at one point, as if the civil servant writing it got bored and just thought they'd chuck in as much crazy nonsense as possible.


http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/12/if-this-is-all-the-government-has-for-its-brexit-white-paper


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:10 am 
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Quote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/12/donald-trump-says-boris-johnson-would-make-great-prime-minister/

Boris Johnson would make “a great prime minister” because “he’s got what it takes”, Donald Trump has said just days after the former foreign secretary quit Theresa May’s Cabinet.

The US President said he was “very saddened” to see Mr Johnson leave the Government because he is “a very talented guy” for whom “I have a lot of respect”.

However Mr Johnson’s successor as Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, was doing “a terrible job” and was failing the capital over terrorism and crime, he said.

He also controversially said immigration had “changed the fabric of Europe”.

And he admitted that he “feels unwelcome” in London because of mass protests organised to disrupt his visit.

I suppose it was time for Boris to get some payback from Trump regarding the sycophantic praise that he lavished upon him last month.
Quote:
“I am increasingly admiring of Donald Trump. I have become more and more convinced that there is method in his madness.”

Make no mistake here though. Regarding the timing, and the comments themselves - none of this was accidental. For Boris to attack May and the White Paper through a foreign government just days after resigning from the cabinet merely highlights the disarray that the Conservative party are in. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks, it seems inevitable that there will be a showdown between May and the hard-Brexiteers.

The cover of The Sun where the comments were written is rather illuminating.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:49 am 
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My prediction that May would be gone by the end of the week is looking shaky. But I reckon the one about the White Paper not impressing the EU is solid. The WP is delusional and suggests things that the EU couldn't possibly offer.

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86930

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:10 pm 
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She's hanging on so far. Will see what the reaction to the White Paper is after the Trump circus has left town. His comments could go either way - plenty of people might prefer not to align themselves with him.

Weekends are a good time for backbench conspiracy so maybe they'll try getting the signatures they need to force a contest. They would probably still lose though but it might be cathartic for May. She could do with a win - can she call a vote of confidence in herself?!

Depends also how much shit Brussels smears on the White Paper or if they stick with 'It's a start, now let's talk' - which seems to be Dublin's line.

I'd like to see Ress-Mogg or Davis or Johnson publish an alternative White Paper. Any chance of that?



Came across this excellent video for the first time. It's excellent in the sense that it's nicely done and you can see how it could be appealing as long as you have almost no prior knowledge and don't think it through at all. Stating the most obvious flaw, all the money flows out - none flows in. People, on the other hand, flow in but never out.

Too late complaining about this now, obviously, but I don't think enough has been done to counter this even two years on. Plenty of people just think May is stubbornly denying them all that good stuff - the roads, hospitals, schools, research (bonus LOL for that one - the UK is brilliant at winning EU research funds, which is why it wants to stay in Horizon, the ERC, COST and so on). It's as though she's just being a dick, for reasons unknown or because she's part of an elite conspiracy.


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Ixelles wrote:
Too late complaining about this now, obviously, but I don't think enough has been done to counter this even two years on. Plenty of people just think May is stubbornly denying them all that good stuff - the roads, hospitals, schools, research .....

Its called 'Austerity' and its been around a while.

Its not suprising that Irish posters cannot understand others actively opposing the socialisation-of-losses-and-privatisation-of-profits matra of the EU; you've swallowed it without a whimper.
Any change now and you start to look like mugs. Better double down on the 'look-at-dem-gobshites' line, otherwise you could end up looking really stupid.

There was narry a protest, electoral or otherwise, save the de facto mass expulsion of 10s of thousands of your young people when you went down.
Funny that, the Brits putting up a fight, starting with electoral defiance, to break from an empire and the Irish telling them where they're going wrong....
Youse are well managed, arent ye?
Herded, even.

Ireland hadnt the bollox to stand up for itself against the banks.... sure you were offering to bail out half of Europe before the EU stepped in and tried to stop you.
I think the Brits move is 'risky' but there is no way, no how they'll take criticism from such a supine, craven, mindless populace.
Nor should they.

Liek some posts on this thread, everytime I'm home I'm astonished at how people can be so well educated and yet so ignorant at the same time.... Lets just call it 'charm', shall we?

Ixelles wrote:
It's as though she's just being a dick, for reasons unknown or because she's part of an elite conspiracy.

Nothing at stake for the 'elites' in a hard Brexit, eh?

Real Stockholm Syndrome stuff. Cognitive dissonance ahoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Sosthenes wrote:
Ixelles wrote:
Too late complaining about this now, obviously, but I don't think enough has been done to counter this even two years on. Plenty of people just think May is stubbornly denying them all that good stuff - the roads, hospitals, schools, research .....

Its called 'Austerity' and its been around a while.

Its not suprising that Irish posters cannot understand others actively opposing the socialisation-of-losses-and-privatisation-of-profits matra of the EU; you've swallowed it without a whimper.
Any change now and you start to look like mugs. Better double down on the 'look-at-dem-gobshites' line, otherwise you could end up looking really stupid.

There was narry a protest, electoral or otherwise, save the de facto mass expulsion of 10s of thousands of your young people when you went down.
Funny that, the Brits putting up a fight, starting with electoral defiance, to break from an empire and the Irish telling them where they're going wrong....
Youse are well managed, arent ye?
Herded, even.

Ireland hadnt the bollox to stand up for itself against the banks.... sure you were offering to bail out half of Europe before the EU stepped in and tried to stop you.
I think the Brits move is 'risky' but there is no way, no how they'll take criticism from such a supine, craven, mindless populace.
Nor should they.

Liek some posts on this thread, everytime I'm home I'm astonished at how people can be so well educated and yet so ignorant at the same time.... Lets just call it 'charm', shall we?

Ixelles wrote:
It's as though she's just being a dick, for reasons unknown or because she's part of an elite conspiracy.

Nothing at stake for the 'elites' in a hard Brexit, eh?

Real Stockholm Syndrome stuff. Cognitive dissonance ahoy!

I believe some 70% of those who emigrated during the recession, including myself left jobs, and many like myself returned to jobs, and some like myself left again for further career reasons. It's not the EUs or anyone's fault but ours that we let our property job market expand to unhealthy proportions whereby 15% of the workforce was engaged directly in construction and another 7/8% in ancillary industries to property development. I think someone else posted here that the average for a construction workforce for the average economy was around 8/9%.

The north of England has seen massive post industry population decline too yet they swallowed the line hook and sinker that is was the EUs fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Sosthenes wrote:
Ixelles wrote:
Too late complaining about this now, obviously, but I don't think enough has been done to counter this even two years on. Plenty of people just think May is stubbornly denying them all that good stuff - the roads, hospitals, schools, research .....

Its called 'Austerity' and its been around a while.

Its not suprising that Irish posters cannot understand others actively opposing the socialisation-of-losses-and-privatisation-of-profits matra of the EU; you've swallowed it without a whimper.
Any change now and you start to look like mugs. Better double down on the 'look-at-dem-gobshites' line, otherwise you could end up looking really stupid.

There was narry a protest, electoral or otherwise, save the de facto mass expulsion of 10s of thousands of your young people when you went down.
Funny that, the Brits putting up a fight, starting with electoral defiance, to break from an empire and the Irish telling them where they're going wrong....
Youse are well managed, arent ye?
Herded, even.

Ireland hadnt the bollox to stand up for itself against the banks.... sure you were offering to bail out half of Europe before the EU stepped in and tried to stop you.
I think the Brits move is 'risky' but there is no way, no how they'll take criticism from such a supine, craven, mindless populace.
Nor should they.

Liek some posts on this thread, everytime I'm home I'm astonished at how people can be so well educated and yet so ignorant at the same time.... Lets just call it 'charm', shall we?

Ixelles wrote:
It's as though she's just being a dick, for reasons unknown or because she's part of an elite conspiracy.

Nothing at stake for the 'elites' in a hard Brexit, eh?

Real Stockholm Syndrome stuff. Cognitive dissonance ahoy!


Not much wrong in that....

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Yawn, West brexiteers ;)
(who've clearly never lived in England...)

Seriously though, what are we going to do when there's a hard border on the island? Play pretend?

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 Post subject: Re: Britain leaving the European Union.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:59 pm 
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yoganmahew wrote:
Yawn, West brexiteers ;)
(who've clearly never lived in England...)

Seriously though, what are we going to do when there's a hard border on the island? Play pretend?

Customs posts I guess.
Image

Regional unemployment in the border areas will plummet with all the customs staff we'll need! Of we'll be able to hire Irish citizens from NI too. Quiet an unusual border in being able to be staff from either side.

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